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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Christian" data-source="post: 2796845" data-attributes="member: 381">I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, KD. Either the terms 'believe' and 'disbelieve' have special, technical meanings in the rules regarding saves versus glamers and phantasms, or they're being used in their normal English meanings. If the former, then we're limited in our inferences by the specified technical meanings given to those terms; in this case, certain types of situations where characters gain bonuses, re-rolls, or even automatic success to those saves--but none specifically listed that indicate characters lose their normal option to forgo making a saving throw. If the latter, then the discussion of 'cognitive dissonance' is certainly relevant, whether the game designers had that in mind or not. Given the quagmire that that can lead to (do we need psychology degrees to DM this game?), I'm strongly inclined to go with the first reading. And it is nowhere stated in the rules that a character is unable to voluntarily fail a saving throw, even one where he would automatically succeed if he chose to try to save. Neither a Will (disbelief) save nor any other kind ...</blockquote>