MonsterEnvy
Legend
Moloch was shown off in that new Dragon+ So here I am sharing him.
https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/dragon/19/DRA19_Moloch.pdf
https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/dragon/19/DRA19_Moloch.pdf
Archdevil Moloch (Mordenkainen's tome of foes preview from Dragon+)
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MonsterEnvy
Legend
I feel one of his best tactics is to create a stinking cloud in front of him or on him then pull PC's into it.
Erechel
Explorer
It is a tad weak. A level 12 party will not have many problems dealing with him. Heck, a level 12 paladin could take it with ease. It's hit points are negligible, and its resistances won't make up, as they are very easy to circumvent
Demetrios1453
Hero
Over on the Dragon+ thread, they've shown how he can be a nightmare, mainly due to that legendary action teleport...
MonsterEnvy
Legend
His regen is also quite strong. Also I checked how well a Level 20 Paladin would do. He gets his ass kicked. The Pally was granted a +3 Greatsword and everything and some fire resist along with high stats. Molochs large array of control abilities made it too hard to keep up. And his regen means that if he is getting too hurt he has no reason to stay and fight up close until he has healed.
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dave2008
Legend
Dude, he can teleport 120' 4x a round if he wants. You are missing a lot of the tactical options he has. He is a classic skirmisher. Attack, separate, withdraw, regenerate, teleport, range attack, etc., etc. He may not look like much, but in the hands of a crafty DM he is deadly. To be clear, I am not a very crafty DM, so his greatness would be mostly lost on me!
For a crafty DM's approach, check out @Lancelot's comment in this issue's Dragon+ thread: post #8 and post #12
I'll point out that Moloch doesn't have to be a simple combat monster, he has Alter Self at will which can also allow his size to medium. He could use the spell to infiltrate the party and make mischief, manipulate him into attacking Glasya or her servants.
He can also cast animate undead at will which means I can see him dwelling in graveyards and battlefields with a great many dead bodies.
He also has major image at will, so he can toss illusions at the party to trick them.
Remember the Moloch is an Archdevil, a master manipulator who while a great combat threat, would much gather use the party then fight them to the death as much fun as that would be for him.
Also he makes an interesting Warlock Patron, selling him your soul does NOTHING FOR HIM, he's exiled from Hell, so he can't collect.
But he's interested in gold, intel, services, dead bodies for animate dead, and in supporting the enemies of Glaysa.
Moloch makes a ironic and perfect Patron for a Fiend Pact Warlock who wants the power to fight the forces of Hell on behalf of good, and because of his Alter Self spell power, he can appear as say an Aasimar when offering his support in fighting the evil forces of Glasya.
He can also cast animate undead at will which means I can see him dwelling in graveyards and battlefields with a great many dead bodies.
He also has major image at will, so he can toss illusions at the party to trick them.
Remember the Moloch is an Archdevil, a master manipulator who while a great combat threat, would much gather use the party then fight them to the death as much fun as that would be for him.
Also he makes an interesting Warlock Patron, selling him your soul does NOTHING FOR HIM, he's exiled from Hell, so he can't collect.
But he's interested in gold, intel, services, dead bodies for animate dead, and in supporting the enemies of Glaysa.
Moloch makes a ironic and perfect Patron for a Fiend Pact Warlock who wants the power to fight the forces of Hell on behalf of good, and because of his Alter Self spell power, he can appear as say an Aasimar when offering his support in fighting the evil forces of Glasya.
I'll also note the reference to the Eidilon which is also in this book, basically living idols, of gods, Archfiends like Moloch, perhaps other cosmic beings.
I hope they use Eidilons in more interesting ways.
I'll also note that Moloch is the same CR as the Solar, but the Empyrean is more powerful then he is. I wonder if this means Empyreans are effectly Celestial Paragons.
I hope they use Eidilons in more interesting ways.
I'll also note that Moloch is the same CR as the Solar, but the Empyrean is more powerful then he is. I wonder if this means Empyreans are effectly Celestial Paragons.
Demetrios1453
Hero
If I'm not mistaken, that is the 1e art.
I also like how they are again reconciling disparate things from previous editions to make a coherent story. Moloch was mentioned in a couple of 3e products as being nothing more than an imp; here, they take that and make it so that, yes, that's true, but he's also able to appear in his normal, powerful form.
Erechel
Explorer
Sorry, maybe I'm missing something, but he can teleport as an action (thus, negating the attack) or legendary action (thus, before a character's turn), so he can't attack=>withdraw or teleport. And his regeneration is negated by radiant damage: A lvl 12 paladin always adds radiant damage to his attacks. So best case scenario, he stays away and don't attack, or the paladin or cleric gets him. Sacred flame? He doesn't regenerate Being hit by the paladin? He doesn't regenerate. Different would be if he could teleport as bonus action or reaction. But when he can do so, the damage is already done.
It is the same problem I had with the Balors. The Ancient's paladin eat them alive in no more than 2 rounds, as they dish a humongous quantity of damage with his smite. Misty step allows to pass by the undead and reach the demon easily. Add a rogue, and Moloch can't survive for long. And I have fame for being nasty in combat. I just can't see how he could be a serious threat to a good paladin.
MonsterEnvy
Legend
For one he does not have to be close to the Paladin who are only real threats in melee. Dropping stuff like stinking cloud on him works fine, all he needs to do is lock the paladin down then start smashing him. Same with clerics.
And yes he can easily attack then withdraw. He attacks using his action then teleports away using a legendary action.
dave2008
Legend
I think Monstery Eny explained it well. Also his whip has a range of 30. And he has at-will burning hands. He doesn't have to engage in melee. And when he does he can retreat, regenerate, and then attack again.
Bitbrain
ORC (Open RPG) horde ally
Yeah, with that Legendary Action teleport moloch really is a beast.
I find myself imagining a situation where the party members all carry a bag of silver coins.
As they face moloch, they scatter in a different direction, each dropping their bag of silver coins at their feet. Moloch starts going after them one at a time . . . And then the bard/sorcerer/wizard targets the coins nearest moloch and bombards him with them while the cleric fires guiding bolts at him.
Ranged attacks are definitely gonna be your friend against this guy.
I find myself imagining a situation where the party members all carry a bag of silver coins.
As they face moloch, they scatter in a different direction, each dropping their bag of silver coins at their feet. Moloch starts going after them one at a time . . . And then the bard/sorcerer/wizard targets the coins nearest moloch and bombards him with them while the cleric fires guiding bolts at him.
Ranged attacks are definitely gonna be your friend against this guy.
Lancelot
Adventurer
Ok, let's imagine three scenarios. And note, as per the DMG, Legendary actions can only be used by a creature at the END of another creature's turn.
Scenario #1: The paladin is alone, and Moloch is alone. Curiously, this means that Moloch can only use one Legendary action per round (at the end of the paladin's turn). Moloch shows up with a fly spell in effect. Can the paladin fly? If not, he's in a world of hurt. He's unlikely to ever break Moloch's concentration on the fly, and Moloch can re-cast it at will anyway. Smites don't usually apply to ranged attacks. Second question: can the paladin cover 120' of distance in a single turn and still melee attack? If not, he's probably dead. Moloch doesn't even need to fly. He casts wall of fire at will from 120' away. The paladin closes. Moloch uses a legendary to teleport another 120' back at the end of the paladin's turn. He then casts wall of fire again. Repeat until paladin is toast. To mix things up, Moloch could use the legendary to cast stinking cloud after the paladin closes. +3 Con, +5 Cha (aura of protection), no Con save proficiency = 60% chance the paladin loses his next turn. If the paladin fails the save, Moloch gets to pound him with 3 attacks and then repeats with the stinking cloud at the end of the vomiting paladin's turn. If the paladin ever makes the save, Moloch uses his regular round to teleport away another 120'. If Moloch ever takes serious damage, he uses both the legendary and the regular action to teleport away 120' each. He's now 240' back (and still has the flight option). Once he has distance, he regenerates all damage taken over a few rounds. Then back into the fray. A lone paladin just won't have the mobility to handle a creature that can make an attack and get 120' away every round (and regenerate once it's far enough back to be out of range).
Scenario #2: The paladin has 3 companions (cleric, wizard, rogue). Now, Moloch can use all three of his Legendary actions per round. Moloch can still cast that wall of fire at will. The combat begins, and the rogue readies an action to fire his bow when an ally gets adjacent. Moloch legendaries to teleport 90' backwards. The wizard gets a spell off, but Moloch has high saves, magic resistance, and legendary resistance. Good luck to him. If the spell somehow got the paladin or cleric much closer to Moloch, he uses a 2nd legendary at the end of the wizard's turn to teleport another 120' back. If not, he uses his 2nd legendary to drop DC 21 stinking cloud on the party. If he manages to take out the paladin for a round, he uses his 3rd legendary at the END of the cleric's turn to teleport back in and prepares to smash him with a full round on his regular turn. When the rogue's turn comes around again, he might cop a sneak attack... but then he teleports another 120' away again. The paladin is never going to get adjacent, and if Moloch ever loses more than 120 HP... he teleports back 120' each on the rogue's/wizard's/paladin's turn with his 3 legendaries. He's now 360' back without even using his own regular round, and begins regenerating.
Scenario #3: Moloch has half a dozen allies. And this is where it gets ugly. Note that Moloch can use his legendaries at the end of another CREATURE'S turn, not necessarily a PC's turn. Monsters, by RAW, all go on the same initiative count if they're the same type. So, Moloch (initiative count 15) is accompanied by 6 random meatshields, all going on initiative count 10. He can now perform all kinds of legendary shenanigans, because he can use all three legendaries on the same count after each one of his bodyguards acts. He can teleport into the party 120' away, whip somebody or try to take a bunch of them out for a round with stinking cloud, then immediately teleport 120' away again. The PCs don't even get an action off. It gets worse if a PC finished 30' away from Moloch when the triple legendary goes off in his bodyguards's turns. Moloch whips and drags them 30', then teleports 30', then whips and drags them another 30'. He has now separated a PC from the rest of the party by a 60' gap - and can do that every round, without even using his own regular turn. Bad news for the rogue or cleric, neither of whom is going to be making that DC 24 Str save... and they're now out of the paladin's protection aura too.
And, of course, all of this assumes a paladin is present. If there's no paladin, it gets ugly. DC 21 fear breath is going to wreck barbarians, fighters, rogues, etc. Clerics and (some) warlocks can do radiant, but the 120' range of Moloch's at-will wall of fire is going to be an issue - and neither class is really capable of nova damage. If the party stays grouped, Moloch goes nuts with area effects (wall of fire, stinking cloud, breath weapon). If they spread out, he teleports 30 ft away from the most remote of them at the end of the 2nd-to-last PC's turn, whips them closer at the end of the last PC's turn, spends his regular turn pounding on them with all three attacks, then teleports away again at the end of the 1st PC's turn. Repeat as required.
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MechaTarrasque
Hero
Don't forget monsters can OA too. I could see Moloch using his turn to teleport next to a squishy wizard, OA the wizard when he/she tries to move away, and teleport away after the next PC makes an action. One round, Moloch may never even be within melee range of the paladin, and he still has two LA left to use.
Still kids, nothing is sadder than a LE big shot who lost his organization. Back when Moloch was running his own plane, the party could have run into a horned devil and two bone devils right outside wherever Moloch was, and if the paladin blew his/her highest level slots on those devils, all the "the paladin does sooo much damage" talk is suddenly just hot air when Moloch steps out to see whose making all that noise while he is trying to scheme.....
Still kids, nothing is sadder than a LE big shot who lost his organization. Back when Moloch was running his own plane, the party could have run into a horned devil and two bone devils right outside wherever Moloch was, and if the paladin blew his/her highest level slots on those devils, all the "the paladin does sooo much damage" talk is suddenly just hot air when Moloch steps out to see whose making all that noise while he is trying to scheme.....
Mr. Wilson
Explorer
Ugh.
Only 250 hps.
Dead in 2-3 rounds against my 11th level group, even with his legendary teleporting. Between the lore bard tanking his initiative, the GWF Barbarian getting in 1 round of attacks, and the SS ranger/cleric specializing in fiends they'd light him up (with 2 PCs to spare).
Only 250 hps.
Dead in 2-3 rounds against my 11th level group, even with his legendary teleporting. Between the lore bard tanking his initiative, the GWF Barbarian getting in 1 round of attacks, and the SS ranger/cleric specializing in fiends they'd light him up (with 2 PCs to spare).
jaelis
Oh this is where the title goes?
Could you explain a little better how your party would overcome the teleporting and ranged capability?
The 1E art reminds me of the time when I was about 12 and my Mother's friend expressed disbelief that I was allowed to play such a dangerous game. It always amused me that certain types saw devil stat blocks as a lure to devil worship, but to me and my friends it was a call to righteously kick some devil ass.
Lancelot
Adventurer
How? Moloch has 21 Int. Any DM starts him at his preferred range, because he's smarter than any normal PC. 18 Wis, too.
How does the barbarian close 120' in one round and still attack? Even if the bard dimension doors the barbarian adjacent, Moloch just legendary teleports 120 ft further back at the end of the bard's turn. The barbarian's never going to get adjacent. He's also going to be dropping his weapon and fleeing thanks to that Wisdom DC 21 fear breath. Immune to fear? Wisdom DC 21 confusion or suggestion. Can somehow move 120' per round and still attack? Also needs to be able to fly. Good luck to an 11th level ranger/cleric taking Moloch alone at range. Even if he gets some good damage off, Moloch teleports back 120'/240'/360' on the bard's/barbarian's/ranger's turns, and is out of longbow range by the end of the 2nd round - and regenerating all damage in less than a minute. Hope the ranger has infinite arrows.
