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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 5625198" data-attributes="member: 78">Getting the extra attack from Ki and the unarmed strike damage are both swift actions; they can't be combined.Moreover, if you're including limited use class features for the monk, why the heck are you not including fighter class features?   At level 10 on your chart, for instance, Weapon Training 2 more than makes up for the slightly lower damage die (1d8+2 > 1d10) in terms of pure damage.  At level 15, Weapon Training 3 on the d8 bow is still a bit ahead of 2d6.  And that's completely ignoring feats; Monk only has an advantage with 2d10 versus just Weapon Training bonus.  Damage is damage, whether it's coming from dice or bonuses.Doing some rough calculations assuming the monk and fighter each have the same attack stats, if the fighter needs a 10 to hit with rapid shot at level 14, he gets 1.45 hits per full attack, and Many Shot means the first shot counts twice (I think everything the fighter has adds again, so the only loss is from potential critical damage), so that's 2 full hits worth of damage.  The monk is 3 points behind from Weapon Training, and thus needs 13.  Using Ki for an extra attack with his flurry, the monk ends up with 1.55 hits per full attack.  Since the fighter should be able to do at least as much damage per hit with better Weapon Spec access and Weapon Training, the fighter should be ahead.  Similarly, if the fighter needs a 5 to hit, he ends up with 2.45/3.25 hits, while the monk ends up with 2.85 hits.So the fighter is getting more hits even with the monk using ki points.  However, I ignored criticals - the monk's extra attacks give it more chances for a crit (especially since Many Shot can't crit), but the fighter's sheer number of feats and base attack allow it to get critical boosting feats easily.  Plus I think the I slighted the fighter his bonus from Greater Focus.Having the extra class attack bonus really matters - and if the enemy AC is sufficiently low that it doesn't, having the feat for Deadly Aim can still allow the fighter to turn better attack bonus into more damage.Of course, considering the Zen Archer monk still has better skills and saves than the fighter, it makes sense that it's less effective at simply turning foes into pin cushions.  And the monk is only a level away from getting another bonus attack.</blockquote>

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