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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rackhir" data-source="post: 637383" data-attributes="member: 149">Example in point, an archer from my previous campaign. Rackhir the Red ArcherMale Human Bar 1/Ftr 6/OBI 5; HD 12D10+36; HP 107; Init +3 (+3 Dex); Speed 80 Ft; AC 19 (+3 dex, +4 Armor, +2 Ring of Protection); Attack Mighty (+4) Composite Long Bow +1 Acid Burst Keen +20/+15/+10, 1D8+1d6+5 (+1 Hit/+4 Dam '30), or Dwarven War Ax +18/+13/+8 D10+8 SV Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +6; Al CN; Str 18, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12;Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Weapon Focus (Comp Long Bow), Weapon Specialization (Comp Long Bow), Improved Critical (CLB), Dodge, Mobility, Leadership (Griffon). Special Abilities : Rage, +10 ft Movement, Close Combat Shot (does not evoke AoO when firing a bow in Close Combat), Superior Weapon Focus, +1d6 Sneak Attack, Knockback Shot, Free Attack (Gain AoO, if ally does).Rackhir at 12th level has a total attack bonus, before GMW of +21 at close range.  A Fire Giant (cr10) has an AC of 21, which means that Rackhir is going to hit him on a 2 or better. Factoring in GMW (+4/+4) for a total of +28 (bow is already +1)  he could take a penalty of 10-12 points for an additional 10-12 points of damage on EACH arrow. Nearly doubling his bonus damage per shot. So with "power shot" he's going to dish out, 1d8+1d6+28 (+ 9  base damage + 7 GMW + 12 Power Shot). With to hit rolls against the fire giant of 7/7/12/17 on his attacks. And on a crit he'll do 3d8+2d10+84. Rackhir is pretty well optimized, though he is relatively light on magic items. The one thing I've never seen him accused of was dealing out insuficient damage. Nor has anyone described his bow of not doing much damage. He was in fact the best killing machine in the campaign (by a hair over the other archer). Now lets look at the infamous Wulf Ratbane, a pretty effective killing machine in his own right. Male Dwarf Rog 3/Ftr 8/Devoted Defender 1; medium sized humanoid (dwarf); HD 3d6 + 8d10+ 1d12 + 72; hp 147; Init +8 (+4 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative); Speed 20 ft; AC 21 (+4 Dex, +7 Armor); base attack +11/+6/+1; Attack Taranak (Battle Axe +1 Flame Burst) +17/+12/+7 melee, or Dagger +3 +18/+13/+8 melee, or Hand Axe +2 +17/+12/+7 melee; two weapon style Taranak and Dagger +3 (+15/+10/+5)/(+16/+11); Dmg Taranak d8 +d6 flame +5(x3 +2d10 flame burst), dagger d4+7 (19-20 x2), hand axe d6+6 (x3); SV Fort +18, Ref +14, Will +6; AL CG (CN tendencies); Str 16 (18 w/ Belt of Strength +2), Dex 18, Con 22, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 8.Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Expert Tactician, Alertness, Weapon Focus: Battle-axeSpecial Abilities and Qualities: Dwarf racial qualities, Disable Traps, Sneak Attack +2d6, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Harm's Way, AC bonus +1 (while defending)Magic Items:Taranak Battle Axe +1 Flaming Burst, Dagger +3 Ghost Touch, Hand Axe +2, Chain Shirt +3 Silent Moves, Cloak of Shadows (+10 Hide), Amulet of Resistance +3, Dart +2 (x4), Dagger +1, Bracers of Defense +2, Ring of Misdirection, Hat of Disguise, Belt of Strength +2, Large Shield +1The infamous Wulf has a total attack bonus of 11 less than Rackhir for his primary attack (Taranak) which does less damage even with out the power attack. Factoring in GMW (+4 from a presumed 12lv Shorty) does help somewhat, cutting it down to an 8 point deficit on the attack roll. However he is still only doing 1d8+1d6+8 per attack roll and the attack bonus differential means he can't afford to power attack with anywhere near the bonus.Now if you are talking about 3rd level characters. Yes, it's not going to make a difference, but little is at that level. The characters are only just getting effective enough that their attacks aren't determined solely by their dice rolls.Is a monk going to give an archer fits, yes. However even without his bow Rackhir is hardly a helpless combatant. Can a sufficently optimized melee character out damage an archer, sure. But you are usually also talking about a totally muchkinized character with 3 or 4 prestige classes, if the smackdowns are any guide.</blockquote>

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