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<blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5616497" data-attributes="member: 92305">I saw it, every time, and I ignored it because I thought you would figure out that it is moot to the discussion.&nbsp;Why?&nbsp;When throwing two axes, you don't need a special feat to do it.&nbsp; A character can do it, albeit with a penalty.&nbsp;My assertion is that the bowman should be able to do the same thing.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Actually, no.&nbsp; By RAW, he's using a Full-Round Action, which is a different animal than the Standard Action.&nbsp;As much as you have been discussing actions, I thought you'd know that.&nbsp;And, you can throw at two different targets, yes?&nbsp; You're telling me you think that a 1st level fighter throws his two hatchets at two different targets simultaneously?&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused&nbsp; &nbsp; :confused:"&nbsp; data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;To be clear, that's a comment about real life, not about 3.5 game mechanics.&nbsp; Yes, the two weapon rules consider a hatchet to be thrown, one from each hand.&nbsp; The game isn't allowing the character to throw with the same hand twice.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;There's not agreeing with my point from a 3.5 point of view, and then there's not agreeing with my point from a real life point of view.&nbsp;The first, I understand.&nbsp; The second is where we have disagreement.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Forget the axes.&nbsp; Just concentrate on the length of the round.&nbsp; Six seconds.&nbsp; Shouldn't a 1st level bowman be able to loose two arrows in six seconds, doing a full round action?&nbsp;I think he should.&nbsp; The rules say &quot;no&quot;.&nbsp;3 seconds is more than enough time to draw, nock, aim, and let fly, albeit with a penalty to each shot (and the two weapon penalities sound fine to me).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I really don't want to put the effort into that.&nbsp; If you can't see my point after six pages on this thread, it's not worth the effort for me to spend another six pages convincing you.&nbsp;Convincing you was not my goal when I started this thread, anyway.&nbsp; I started the thread to understand the rule.&nbsp; Nothing you've said so far has convinced me that the rule is a good one.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp;I would say something about your comprehension skills, but let's not derail the thread.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;There are things that you continue to question that should be obvious to you.&nbsp; And, as I said above, I don't want to spend another six pages explaining it to you.&nbsp;I'm not trying to be snarky.&nbsp; I just don't want to put the energy into making you understand when I know I've expressed several examples that other people understood without pages of supporting material to explain what the example meant.&nbsp;I understand your side well, but I do wonder if I brought in mechanics from a similar game, maybe even a d20 game, that did allow an archer to use a Full Round Action to fire two shots at a penalty, what you would say about it.&nbsp; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/glasses.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt="B-)" title="Glasses&nbsp; &nbsp; B-)" data-shortname="B-)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Water Bob, post: 5616497, member: 92305"] I saw it, every time, and I ignored it because I thought you would figure out that it is moot to the discussion. Why? When throwing two axes, you don't need a special feat to do it. A character can do it, albeit with a penalty. My assertion is that the bowman should be able to do the same thing. Actually, no. By RAW, he's using a Full-Round Action, which is a different animal than the Standard Action. As much as you have been discussing actions, I thought you'd know that. And, you can throw at two different targets, yes? You're telling me you think that a 1st level fighter throws his two hatchets at two different targets simultaneously? :confused: To be clear, that's a comment about real life, not about 3.5 game mechanics. Yes, the two weapon rules consider a hatchet to be thrown, one from each hand. The game isn't allowing the character to throw with the same hand twice. There's not agreeing with my point from a 3.5 point of view, and then there's not agreeing with my point from a real life point of view. The first, I understand. The second is where we have disagreement. Forget the axes. Just concentrate on the length of the round. Six seconds. Shouldn't a 1st level bowman be able to loose two arrows in six seconds, doing a full round action? I think he should. The rules say "no". 3 seconds is more than enough time to draw, nock, aim, and let fly, albeit with a penalty to each shot (and the two weapon penalities sound fine to me). I really don't want to put the effort into that. If you can't see my point after six pages on this thread, it's not worth the effort for me to spend another six pages convincing you. Convincing you was not my goal when I started this thread, anyway. I started the thread to understand the rule. Nothing you've said so far has convinced me that the rule is a good one. ;) I would say something about your comprehension skills, but let's not derail the thread. There are things that you continue to question that should be obvious to you. And, as I said above, I don't want to spend another six pages explaining it to you. I'm not trying to be snarky. I just don't want to put the energy into making you understand when I know I've expressed several examples that other people understood without pages of supporting material to explain what the example meant. I understand your side well, but I do wonder if I brought in mechanics from a similar game, maybe even a d20 game, that did allow an archer to use a Full Round Action to fire two shots at a penalty, what you would say about it. B-) [/QUOTE]

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