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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Philotomy Jurament" data-source="post: 3213922" data-attributes="member: 20854">I agree.  In either 3E or Rolemaster you can "stick with the archetype," but the relatively fine-grained design of the systems give up one of the main benefits of archetypes: simplicity.When the system really leverages archetypes, you can eliminate a lot of complexity.  For example, the archetype can fulfill the function of skills and feats, defining what a PC is "good" at.  For example, if you're playing a strongly-archetyped system that lacks fine-grained skills, you rely on the archetype + the PC background to know what the PC is good at.  Say you have a Ranger who originally came from a fishing village: the archetype defines what he's good at, even if it isn't a specific class ability.  So you know he'll be good at navigation in the wilderness, spotting ambushes, finding water & food, and "nature lore," in general.  Since he's from a fishing background, you can assume some knowledge of boats, nets, knots, et cetera.  The players don't need a big list of specific skills to know where the PC excels, and the DM uses the information to adjudicate in-game situations.There are obviously pros and cons.  A strongly-archetyped system is simple.  Since it relies on DM judgment to a greater degree, it benefits from a good DM, and can suffer from a poor one.  It's less-specific, which means it's flexible.  That is, if a given action sounds like something the PC should be good at, then the DM and players can go with that judgment, rather than worrying if the PC has the appropriate skill or feat listed on the character sheet.  (This avoids the Fighter-without-power-attack type of situation: "What do you mean my second level Fighter doesn't know how to swing harder, trading accuracy for damage?  That's the kind of thing any experienced Fighter would be able to do...."  Other examples abound: Knight-without-heraldry, et cetera.)I like strongly-archetyped systems because of the simplicity and the flexibility.  Character creation is fast and play is fast.  And I think they have a lot of resonance: the nature of the character is easily grasped, especially for new players.  I find that all the "fiddly bits" of a fine-grained skill/feat system don't really add much: you often end up with pretty much the same result, just with a ton more complexity.  YMMV.If you're into fine-grained builds of your character, then Rolemaster or d20 are good choices.</blockquote>

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