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Message: <blockquote data-quote="PapersAndPaychecks" data-source="post: 3222611" data-attributes="member: 28854">You can make the Grey Mouser with the 1e rules.  But I agree that it's a stretch.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I think Cugel is reasonably archetypal, but you don't.  To avoid further quibbles around the word "archetypes", I'll say that my own position is that 1e references certain specific literary antecedents.Not in Gary Gygax's opinion.  And Gary was doing the writing.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Repeat of same answer.Fafhrd, the Grey Mouser, Gandalf, and Aragorn are characters of early-to-mid 20th Century fantasy literature.  The others are ambiguous figures of myth and legend.  None are the literary antecedents of the 1e archetypes.Having said that, it's easy to recreate Arthur (pure fighter, high wisdom, magic sword and scabbard) or Launcelot (pure fighter, high strength) in 1e terms.Or specifically, Jim Ward didn't make him a pure high level bard when writing Deities & Demigods.  And whoever wrote the 1e Nehwon campaign supplement had a different interpretation of Fafhrd to Jim Ward's, iirc.Personally I'm not thrilled with any of the 1e interpretations of Fafhrd, and I certainly don't think the bard is a perfect job -- in fact, I think it's a horrible abortion of a class which is seriously out of balance with the remainder of the system.But I do recognise that it's supposed to be Fafhrd.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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