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<blockquote data-quote="tx7321" data-source="post: 3223734" data-attributes="member: 43146">Charlesatan: &quot;I think what tx7321 wants to argue more about is simplicity. &quot;Yes, thats it. 1E was simpler, with ready to use well defined roles (or jobs) to step into.&nbsp;&nbsp; BUT these roles still represent popular literary archetypes (and not just specific lit. characters). Yes, that is breaking stereo-type, but its also muddling archetype....at least my particular system of archetypes.&nbsp; As you say, all AD&amp;D PCs can be seen as the archetype of &quot;hero&quot;. If were using your devision of archetypes I'd argue there are plenty of coward players (and PCs they control) but thats another matter.&nbsp; The point is, the two games are different, and the freedom given by 3E in PC generation is a huge part of that.&nbsp; And its end results&nbsp; I realized over time were not positive.&nbsp;I suppose my experiance in 3E is that players gravitate toward mixing feats and skills we normally associate with other classes...to the point they themselves don't know exactly what they are...just this hodgpodge mix.&nbsp;&nbsp; Every PC they role up takes the more advantagous skills and feats, and thus you don't get the extremes you did in 1E.&nbsp; Does that make since?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tx7321, post: 3223734, member: 43146"] Charlesatan: "I think what tx7321 wants to argue more about is simplicity. " Yes, thats it. 1E was simpler, with ready to use well defined roles (or jobs) to step into. BUT these roles still represent popular literary archetypes (and not just specific lit. characters). Yes, that is breaking stereo-type, but its also muddling archetype....at least my particular system of archetypes. As you say, all AD&D PCs can be seen as the archetype of "hero". If were using your devision of archetypes I'd argue there are plenty of coward players (and PCs they control) but thats another matter. The point is, the two games are different, and the freedom given by 3E in PC generation is a huge part of that. And its end results I realized over time were not positive. I suppose my experiance in 3E is that players gravitate toward mixing feats and skills we normally associate with other classes...to the point they themselves don't know exactly what they are...just this hodgpodge mix. Every PC they role up takes the more advantagous skills and feats, and thus you don't get the extremes you did in 1E. Does that make since? [/QUOTE]

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