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Message: <blockquote data-quote="charlesatan" data-source="post: 3223969" data-attributes="member: 20870">It's actually virtually impossible to "miss" an archetype. One could easily create a game, any game, and the players will find themselves in roles that fit Jungian philosophy in the same way that a writer might write a novel and (surprise surprise!) at least one of those characters fits an archetype.We don't even need to consult Mr. Gygax. We just need to look at the game. Sure, 1E contains archetypes, but so does 3E (and both facts are more of an inevitability rather than an intent). If you want to look at it from an intention standpoint, the original classes one could choose doesn't really cover all the possible archetypes. Some, yes (in the same way that if you throw a pebble at an army of ants, you're sure you'll hit one, but not sure which one), but there are a lot more archetypes than 1E classes.And again, I think the main point of the thread starter isn't really about archetypes, but simplicity of play, stereotypes, and literary character conversions. And on the part of stereotypes, part of the reason why "mages running in armor" seems so exotic is because D&D itself was the cause of it. Actually in a pre-D&D world, mages don't really wear armor because of a variety of reasons. Here's some: 1) "wise-old-man archetype" - they advise, they don't adventure; why wear protective clothing? 2) they're confident of their abilities that they don't want to burden themselves with clunky stuff such as armor 3) their inevitable nemesis are other mages, at which point armor would be meaningless 4) a number of mages are old men and if you're physically weak, do you really think you have the strength to wear armor?Of course D&D wizards are far from the "wise old man" archetype and are actually heroes, tricksters, or the ubermensch archetype, because they're out there adventuring rather than simply advising. As to why Gygax decided mages shouldn't wear armor is up to him, but one reason why armor-touting wizards is so strange is because D&D made the stereotype of mages not wearing armor. And while everyone in the West was playing Street Fighter II on their consoles, the Japanese were playing video game RPGs which were greatly influenced by D&D itself, and so you have mage characters in games like Final Fantasy wearing stuff like robes and capes instead of breastplates and chain shirts. And somehow that made it to the collective consciousness of the 90's. Of course armor as protection is merely a flavor thing as there are other ways of protecting one's self as a mage (mage armor, shield, ring of protection, high Dex) whether in 1E or 3E.</blockquote>

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