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Message: <blockquote data-quote="charlesatan" data-source="post: 3225981" data-attributes="member: 20870">So now we're approximating? But either way, that still exists in 3E. And the problem with the wizard is that well, we simply have Merlin as your "heroic" wizard, and honestly, even then, he does less adventuring and more advising. And Excalibur being "the classic sort" because it's the only Arthurian model you're familiar with? The spellcaster "where did that come from archetype" stands.I'd say Jack and the Bean Stalk is more of a commoner rather than a thief. Or that of a wise man archetype that outwits rather than physically outmaneuvers them.As for clerics, my point exactly. So now we're now shifting into Bible territory? Again, you have the spellcaster and the Fighter. What happened to the thief and the cleric? And mind you, Bible prophets didn't wear armor (well, the exception are probably the leaders in the Book of Judges but it's been so long since I've read that part). And we're disregarding the fact that prophets did little adventuring and just prophesied, gave warnings, and performed miracles rather than killing stuff directly. Or the fact that they condemned sorcery of any sort (except the miracles they performed of course, because that's not sorcery, that's coming from God).I'm not denying the Fighter. I just see, according to your logic, why we really need the other two, and the spellcaster is really a villain more than a heroic model, at least according to "fairy tales". Unless you want to move into Greek territory, where we had gods-warrior/spellcasters. It's not that we have no interest in it. It's just because it doesn't really relate to the topic at hand. It sounds like a forced thesis. Might look great when your teacher is grading it, but when it boils down to reality, it's a very loose theory. 1E classes can be summarized in two ways: those that kill (i.e. fighter, spellcaster, thief) and those that heal (cleric). It's the bastard child of war gaming after all.</blockquote>

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