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Message: <blockquote data-quote="erucsbo" data-source="post: 3137230" data-attributes="member: 40110">ok - I haven't seen any "yes" arguments given, mostly a lot of singing to the choir. I voted "give a warning", but I want to play devil's advocate here a bit.If your DM is out to dirty the paladin, or throw these situations in for some sadistic reason then it doesn't really matter what you answer, you are going to get screwed in the end (imho).As a DM I expect players of Clerics and Paladins to espouse the philosophies of their deity, otherwise why be a cleric or paladin? If you want to cast spells, be a sorcerer or wizard - you don't have the moral overhead. If you want to fight - be a fighter - you don't have the code to limit you.imho the end DOES NOT justify the means for paladins. To succeed at a task dishonourably or by deception and subterfuge is not success. Killing a single non-guilty individual to save 1000 or more is NOT a morally good act. A paladin effects change through their behaviour and actions as well as by force of arms.Why does the paladin have "Undetectable Alignment" on their spell list? Range is "close" - they can use it to protect an innocent who may be under persecution by an evil cleric casting "detect good".Trying to find reasons that the "code" does not apply is "negative" and borders on LN/LE behaviour - where looking for loopholes and exploitation of rules is the way to get ahead. The paladin should be espousing the spirit of the code, and while they need not broadcast their presence, neither should they be trying to conceal it. It will make them stand apart and perhaps therefore allow other party members to act due to the distraction they create.The above-mentioned Sea Hag might fight dirty, but the paladin should NOT stoop to the same level. He should be a gentleman - but that just means fighting with honour and the conviction of his god, that a pure heart, a strong arm, and the power of his faith is more than a match for the "lure of the dark side".Read the story of Daniel in the Lions Den(Daniel 3) or Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the furnace (Daniel 6) for examples of where faith in their deity is considered more important than fear of laws considered unjust.From a meta-game point of view it also gives the DM so many more options to push the plot along or develop the game in interesting ways. It makes for more memorable games and allows the player of the paladin to demonstrate a side of their character that normally takes a back seat to Smiting and spells/turning/laying on of hands. How many parties see the paladin as an obstacle when they want to "question" a captive or take possession of a powerful (but evil aligned) magical item? It should be the other way around, where clerics and paladins are sought for their advice instead of being worked around.Having an evil overlord doesn't necessarily mean that all people in the city are evil. A paladin identifying themselves as such when asked at the gate may provide a focal point for a civillian rebellion, or a 5th column movement within the guards. If they say "no", and are found out to have been lying then it will just tighten the grip of fear and tyranny that an evil overlord wields over the populace - something that a paladin would NOT want to have happen.As a player of the paladin I would want to have faith that the DM hasn't created this situation as a "no way out deathtrap".As a DM I talked to the players of clerics in my campaign (and would do the same for paladins) saying that I would be watching their character's behaviour from the PoV of their deity, and my response to their actions would be dictated accordingly. Deities are in fights as well (with other deities) and want servants that are loyal and can be trusted not to abandon their god when the going gets tough. It isn't a guarantee of a good outcome, but the potential exists for great rewards for the faithful.</blockquote>

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