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Are 5e Saving Throws Boring?
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7852942" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>That's not how a typical game is played though. Of course the DM has total control. In every edition it's been that way. But doing certain things will probably result in your players not playing with you any longer...</p><p></p><p>Players have an expectation that the game will be played as it was designed. Encounter guidelines (if applicable), how published adventures are set up, etc. The only way to accurately compare is to look at how the game is actually designed like vs like. It's disingenuous to say "Well, I can make 5e just as deadly by doing X Y or Z" because that's not how it's designed and wouldn't be a fair comparison, and not how people play the game.</p><p></p><p>In 5e, I have the expectation that failing a save for all of those monsters and traps I listed above (not even considering spells) is going to not be nearly as bad for my PC as if I failed the same save in AD&D. That's objectively true because we can look at what the effects were for failing in AD&D and directly compare them to the same failed save in 5e. In 5e, I also know that I can keep attempting saving throws until I pass for many conditions that were 1 try and dead in AD&D.</p><p></p><p>So it's objectively true that the risk for failing a save in 5e is less than 1e. And because of that, players planned differently. Again, this has nothing to do with which was better, or more liked, or any other subjective metric. It's about how since the risk is much less, players approach the scenarios with less planning, relying on default strategies that work for almost all encounters. If you know you have 2 tries to avoid a basilisk attack, and even if you fail the options to go back to normal are easier to obtain than in 1e where you have one try, and if you fail it takes rarer magic to go back to normal, you're gonna approach the planning differently in that encounter.</p><p></p><p>And in my experience (I know this part is also subjective) one of the benefits of that is that it made encounters feel more unique and different if you planned differently for each one rather than just focus on DPR</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7852942, member: 15700"] That's not how a typical game is played though. Of course the DM has total control. In every edition it's been that way. But doing certain things will probably result in your players not playing with you any longer... Players have an expectation that the game will be played as it was designed. Encounter guidelines (if applicable), how published adventures are set up, etc. The only way to accurately compare is to look at how the game is actually designed like vs like. It's disingenuous to say "Well, I can make 5e just as deadly by doing X Y or Z" because that's not how it's designed and wouldn't be a fair comparison, and not how people play the game. In 5e, I have the expectation that failing a save for all of those monsters and traps I listed above (not even considering spells) is going to not be nearly as bad for my PC as if I failed the same save in AD&D. That's objectively true because we can look at what the effects were for failing in AD&D and directly compare them to the same failed save in 5e. In 5e, I also know that I can keep attempting saving throws until I pass for many conditions that were 1 try and dead in AD&D. So it's objectively true that the risk for failing a save in 5e is less than 1e. And because of that, players planned differently. Again, this has nothing to do with which was better, or more liked, or any other subjective metric. It's about how since the risk is much less, players approach the scenarios with less planning, relying on default strategies that work for almost all encounters. If you know you have 2 tries to avoid a basilisk attack, and even if you fail the options to go back to normal are easier to obtain than in 1e where you have one try, and if you fail it takes rarer magic to go back to normal, you're gonna approach the planning differently in that encounter. And in my experience (I know this part is also subjective) one of the benefits of that is that it made encounters feel more unique and different if you planned differently for each one rather than just focus on DPR [/QUOTE]
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