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<blockquote data-quote="takasi" data-source="post: 3614891" data-attributes="member: 20194">We had a brief discussiong at our table last night, and with most of us frequenting these boards we decided to move the topic here and continuing playing.We have one player in the group (not me) who is playing a bard.&nbsp; He's 6th level, and although he's never had an opportunity (or reason) to Fascinate anyone, he's now considering it for Suggestion.Another player at the table feels Fascinate is too powerful, because many times the Perform checks will be much higher than anything even a BBEG can save against.&nbsp; However, the only thing the rest of us can really do during the Fascinate is stand still, with no weapons drawn, and not cast any spells (at least not appear to cast any spells).&nbsp; The bard can only do this against one creature.&nbsp; Mechanically I think this is really only useful to get a diplomacy check without a -10 for rushing it.Suggestion, on the other hand, seems to be balanced (IMO even for combat) because the DC is still relatively low (DC 10 + ½ bard’s level + bard’s Cha modifier).Specifically for Dungeon Crawls (we're playing Shackled City, and so far it's been very crawl heavy), does anyone here have bards in their party who get opportunities to use Suggestion?&nbsp; At our table it seems like every single time we meet enemies we always &quot;Roll for Initiative&quot;, and then the bard isn't allowed to use his Fascinate or Suggestion.&nbsp; And personally I think, at least in our group, that people think the bard sucks ass without Fascinate, and that with it they think he's &quot;broken&quot;.&nbsp; The one player who thinks this is too &quot;broken&quot; says that on boards he's seen people post that the bard is dominating the game using his Suggestions, but then others usually chime in and say &quot;Well wait that doesn't work because it's in combat, bards really only do that (in town) instead of (in the dungeon)&quot;.&nbsp; What do you think?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="takasi, post: 3614891, member: 20194"] We had a brief discussiong at our table last night, and with most of us frequenting these boards we decided to move the topic here and continuing playing. We have one player in the group (not me) who is playing a bard. He's 6th level, and although he's never had an opportunity (or reason) to Fascinate anyone, he's now considering it for Suggestion. Another player at the table feels Fascinate is too powerful, because many times the Perform checks will be much higher than anything even a BBEG can save against. However, the only thing the rest of us can really do during the Fascinate is stand still, with no weapons drawn, and not cast any spells (at least not appear to cast any spells). The bard can only do this against one creature. Mechanically I think this is really only useful to get a diplomacy check without a -10 for rushing it. Suggestion, on the other hand, seems to be balanced (IMO even for combat) because the DC is still relatively low (DC 10 + ½ bard’s level + bard’s Cha modifier). Specifically for Dungeon Crawls (we're playing Shackled City, and so far it's been very crawl heavy), does anyone here have bards in their party who get opportunities to use Suggestion? At our table it seems like every single time we meet enemies we always "Roll for Initiative", and then the bard isn't allowed to use his Fascinate or Suggestion. And personally I think, at least in our group, that people think the bard sucks ass without Fascinate, and that with it they think he's "broken". The one player who thinks this is too "broken" says that on boards he's seen people post that the bard is dominating the game using his Suggestions, but then others usually chime in and say "Well wait that doesn't work because it's in combat, bards really only do that (in town) instead of (in the dungeon)". What do you think? [/QUOTE]

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