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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9047865" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I don't care about your expectations of the story. I'm not basing my argument on the story as Clint_L expects it to be. I'm basing my arguments on the rules of the game and exactly what they say. If your only response is "but I don't like that".... well, that doesn't rewrite the rulebooks.If you are trying to say there is nothing in DnD that prevents you from rewriting the rules, then sure, I can concede that point. If you want to homebrew and alter things, then you can. But this is absolutely a world-building problem that people deal with consistently. It comes up quite regularly when discussing the power progression of DnD.The game is more than math. It uses the math to show the expectations. The game absolutely expects that a CR 28 Greatwyrm will trivially destroy a party of level 1 adventurers. It also expects that a CR 1/2 Orc isn't going to win a duel against a level 20 Barbarian. Because the math states that these stories have these limits. It isn't 100% freeform. Sure, theoritically, it is technically possible that an orc could kill a level 20 character, but in reality the only way it happens is with overwhelming numbers, an inability to escape, and some luck.The ultimate fantasy archetype? Woof, not for me. But sure, you can absolutely use it to prove my point. No one in the Fellowship EXCEPT Gandalf the Celestial Angel stood a chance against the Balrog. Everyone ran. Every single one of them fled because to stay would have been death. Additionally, that scene with the Balrog is the only point in the entire series we have Gandalf accessing his divine magic. And it is against a foe he is the antithesis of, meaning it was likely the height of his power.But in DnD? In DnD the literal angelic servant of the Gods wouldn't be fighting alone, the rest of the party would help them. Meaning that they would have to be a lot stronger. Strong enough that a fight against the orcs and a cave troll wouldn't have been as dire a threat to them. And if you want them fighting Sauron himself (which at DnD level 20, is exactly the type of fight you are supposed to be able to have) then all of them would have had to be stronger than THAT, including Gandalf, and by that point... are a couple of orcs really a threat to be fleeing from? I mean, honestly, truly and honestly, would you take ten CR 2 orogs (the closest we have to the white hand orcs) and send them against a level 17 party and expect the party to go "Oh no! This is a dire threat. We must run and hide before they catch us!" Or would they go "okay, um... we turn around? Are you going to have us play this out or should we just mark like a 5th level spell slot and describe how we slaughter them?" And unless you have either REALLY put in some work to make these orcs special, the answer of "No, these orcs are a true match for your strength" is going to be met with "What?! HOW?!"</blockquote>

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