Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 384203" data-attributes="member: 3146">Buffs are very good but they don't beat focussed attack spells hands down.The spells you mentioned can change the tide of a battle but if they're the only spells that change the tide of a battle, it's only because they're the only spells you use.Haste can change the tide of a battle. Slow can be even more effective (particularly since it counters mass haste with no saving throw so if you're up against a horde of hasted foes, it's great). For that matter, comparing the power of a haste spell to fireball in the hands of an 18-22 charisma sorceror with greater spell focus: evocation (DC 21-23 reflex save) doesn't yield a definite answer either. If you're facing multiple opponents, the fireball is probably far more effective. Spellcasters can clean up their foes with save or die spells too. Since you mentioned Tenser's Transformation (with a bunch of other spells tossed into the mix), why not compare it to disintegrate cast by a 24 int (pretty typical by 12th level--starting at 17 (which is possible for a grey elf with the iconic spread of stats) with a headband of intellect +4) wizard with greater spell focus: Transmutation. DC 27 Fort save or die. And the wizard in question has only used up a single sixth level spell rather than a first (mage armor), second (endurance), third (haste), fourth (polymorph self), fifth (persistent Shield), and sixth (Tenser's transformation--which has a 300gp material component) level spell.For that matter, the persistent shield spell could have been an empowered fireball (average 52 pts. damage) with a DC that's most likely 23* (22 int, greater spell focus: evoc). The polymorph self could have been a polymorph other (Fort DC 25 or turned into a harmless bunny rabbit).Or it could have been an enervation. For that matter the disintegrate could have been a twinned or repeating enervation. Villains with -2d4 to every roll they make are suddenly much less impressive.The haste could have been a fireball but would most likely still be a haste (it's useful for a blaster mage too) enabling the wizard to drop the disintegrate this round and follow it up with the polymorph other and the empowered fireball next round.So, in short, although it's possible to make an effective wizard using buff spells that is by no means the only kind of effective wizard that can be constructed. And it doesn't prove that buff spells are somehow broken. Sure, I had to use feats to make my blaster mage examples really effective, but feats (notably extend spell, persistent spell, and empower spell) were used to make the buffing mage effective as well. If you compare wizards constructed to do different tasks, you need to figure that they have the relevant feats.*Of course, if you allow FRCS, the wizard can have spellcasting prodigy and bloodline of fire as well to pump this DC up even further.</blockquote>

Verification