Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Are Casters 'still' way better than noncasters after level 6?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5286272" data-attributes="member: 11300"><p>Spells found per level varies. Essentially though because I like to provide room for growth, I encourage a lot of downtime otherwise you end up with the level 1 to level 20 in as many weeks syndrome. This does mean that the wizard has lots of time to put spells in his spellbooks, and that casters have plenty of time to craft the nice stuff.</p><p></p><p>I agree with you that a "real" problem is one not instantly solved by a single spell. Finding a "real" problem that cannot be solved by the wizard alone or by the wizard mainly is something I have found difficult to implement. He can do things that other characters simply cannot and so he is perfectly setup for finding the quickest, most painless, and resource-lite way of solving the problem. I have found high level play without a wizard a completely different kettle of fish and in the main one where the whole party was more involved.</p><p></p><p>You obviously cannot forbid powerful characters to act and non-casters can still provide meaningful input into the game. It is just that these moments are generally overshadowed by a high level wizard's input.</p><p></p><p>High level play is different but certainly not unplayable. DMing it is incredibly challenging and you need to have the "right" kind of players on board to make it zing. DMing a disparate party with a high level wizard is incredibly difficult. I have found it a constant challenge to make high level combat challenging to all rather than just challenging to some. Similarly non-combat challenges are still difficult to ensure that all players get satisfactory input - it is just the nature of high level play that a particular player will usually be the focus.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If I was a player and the DMed interpreted it that way, I would play along with it but would feel a little cheated. You're targetting the spell and thus if your caster level check is good enough, then you would expect the Forbiddance spell to end. Nothing that 6 rounds and a little cash won't fix I suppose. Although 6 rounds is generally enough for the PCs to do their thing and bug out.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think 25,000gps worth of diamond is too much to ask for the effect in question in terms of temporary suppression. However, wishes and deities generally means the DM gets to do something nasty in the deity's name. This is where things can get real fun - although generally the ascended just gets their arse kicked in - which of course is still fun.</p><p></p><p>You could have the Thieve's Guild ally with a powerful cleric to have the effect imposed upon their domain or alternatively the guild if powerful enough can just force the issue as payment - although having scroll's of Forbiddance just lying around to be stolen seems a little weird.</p><p></p><p>And just to explain, I'm happy to have a counter-measure or two - ending up in the wizard possibly being slightly discomforted but not suitable challenged. What I was saying though is that you have to have a specific series of counter-measures to get through their defences and truly challenge them. i don't like having this specific set of counter-measures performed here and there as it is unrealistic. I just accept that the wizard is "unkillable" unless another wizard is specifically going after them (and wizards generally don't do that unless they know they can win and at that level, a wizard does not have that guarantee).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Greater Teleport basically says that the teleportation works as long as you have an inkling of where you're going. I have mucked around with this to make it difficult and that was fun. But it's not a trick you can pull out again unless it's deserved. You can change the world but this is perhaps falling into the syndrome you mention of trying to keep things as they were before the party could ignore spacial distance. Even the tuning fork thing with Plane Shift just gets circumvented by casting it as a limited wish (thus providing the necessary focus automatically). I just accept that there are no longer such boundaries.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sounds cool.</p><p></p><p>But not as bad ass as the wizard.</p><p></p><p>All cool. I'm not saying that other players don't get their characters to do cool things - they do. I have just found that the spread of coolness is more even when a high level wizard ain't there.</p><p></p><p>Best Regards</p><p>Herremann the Wise</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Herremann the Wise, post: 5286272, member: 11300"] Spells found per level varies. Essentially though because I like to provide room for growth, I encourage a lot of downtime otherwise you end up with the level 1 to level 20 in as many weeks syndrome. This does mean that the wizard has lots of time to put spells in his spellbooks, and that casters have plenty of time to craft the nice stuff. I agree with you that a "real" problem is one not instantly solved by a single spell. Finding a "real" problem that cannot be solved by the wizard alone or by the wizard mainly is something I have found difficult to implement. He can do things that other characters simply cannot and so he is perfectly setup for finding the quickest, most painless, and resource-lite way of solving the problem. I have found high level play without a wizard a completely different kettle of fish and in the main one where the whole party was more involved. You obviously cannot forbid powerful characters to act and non-casters can still provide meaningful input into the game. It is just that these moments are generally overshadowed by a high level wizard's input. High level play is different but certainly not unplayable. DMing it is incredibly challenging and you need to have the "right" kind of players on board to make it zing. DMing a disparate party with a high level wizard is incredibly difficult. I have found it a constant challenge to make high level combat challenging to all rather than just challenging to some. Similarly non-combat challenges are still difficult to ensure that all players get satisfactory input - it is just the nature of high level play that a particular player will usually be the focus. If I was a player and the DMed interpreted it that way, I would play along with it but would feel a little cheated. You're targetting the spell and thus if your caster level check is good enough, then you would expect the Forbiddance spell to end. Nothing that 6 rounds and a little cash won't fix I suppose. Although 6 rounds is generally enough for the PCs to do their thing and bug out. I don't think 25,000gps worth of diamond is too much to ask for the effect in question in terms of temporary suppression. However, wishes and deities generally means the DM gets to do something nasty in the deity's name. This is where things can get real fun - although generally the ascended just gets their arse kicked in - which of course is still fun. You could have the Thieve's Guild ally with a powerful cleric to have the effect imposed upon their domain or alternatively the guild if powerful enough can just force the issue as payment - although having scroll's of Forbiddance just lying around to be stolen seems a little weird. And just to explain, I'm happy to have a counter-measure or two - ending up in the wizard possibly being slightly discomforted but not suitable challenged. What I was saying though is that you have to have a specific series of counter-measures to get through their defences and truly challenge them. i don't like having this specific set of counter-measures performed here and there as it is unrealistic. I just accept that the wizard is "unkillable" unless another wizard is specifically going after them (and wizards generally don't do that unless they know they can win and at that level, a wizard does not have that guarantee). Greater Teleport basically says that the teleportation works as long as you have an inkling of where you're going. I have mucked around with this to make it difficult and that was fun. But it's not a trick you can pull out again unless it's deserved. You can change the world but this is perhaps falling into the syndrome you mention of trying to keep things as they were before the party could ignore spacial distance. Even the tuning fork thing with Plane Shift just gets circumvented by casting it as a limited wish (thus providing the necessary focus automatically). I just accept that there are no longer such boundaries. Sounds cool. But not as bad ass as the wizard. All cool. I'm not saying that other players don't get their characters to do cool things - they do. I have just found that the spread of coolness is more even when a high level wizard ain't there. Best Regards Herremann the Wise [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Are Casters 'still' way better than noncasters after level 6?
Top