Are Con and Dex backwards?

[Oni]

This is a purely academic quandry. HP in Dnd represents the ability to roll with the hits, dodge, and basically get out of the way. AC with the exception of dexterity bonus is really a resistance to being hit, i.e. fullplate doesn't really mean that your hit less often only that he armour absorbed the damage and the blow didn't harm you, same can be said for shield bonuses, natural armor bonuses, deflection bonuses et c. With that in mind would it not make more sense that Dexterity provide extra HP (as representing the ability to not be hit) and Constitution to provide a bonus to AC (representing the ability to absorb blows)? Thoughts?

 

[Xarlen]

Actually, the 'roll with the punches' thing doesn't come into play until later levels. That's when your PC can basicly fall off a building and live. In early levels, a single arrow can kill you, so there's no 'rolling' to it. It's 'shot in the throat and die'.

Dex to AC represents your ability to dodge, not how tough your body is (Otherwise it'd be Nat armor).

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

HP is a screwball mechanic at high levels (albeit a screwball mechanic I love, don't read too much in there). One that combines "rolling with the punches" with sheer force of will and the ability to take hits that would cripple a lesser creature.

With that in mind, I break it down for myself this way. HP gained from your class hit die is the "roll with the punches" avoiding serious injury part of your HP. That's why fighters get more of them. They're in that kind of situation more, and have picked up more tricks. HP from Con bonus represent the ability to take blows (directly, on a lesser part of your armor, etc.) that creatures of lesser endurance and pain tolerance could not.

That's kind of a meaningless distinction in game, but it makes me feel better to justify things.

 

[Oni]

It's just that, say for a suit of armour, the AC represents the suits ability to take blows not avoid them. And HP for the most part represent dodging blows, so why not make it a little more unified.

 

[jollyninja]

this is why i like the wound/vitality point system. the description of it does a better job of representing what hp are supposed to be. as i understand hp, they represent both the physical toughness and the resiliance of the character. scoring a hit does not mean that you have actually made contact with the character, only that your attack was good enough to make the character expend signifigant energy to avoid being skewered.

thus a character's dex should stay on ac (how difficult it is to hit the character) and con on hp (how tough the character is and how much energy he has). it's armor that is done in a way that makes little sense in context with the rest of the system but that's not the debate here.

 

[Umbran]

It's just that, say for a suit of armour, the AC represents the suits ability to take blows not avoid them.

I'm not sure this is the whole story. This would be true if all there was to wearing armor and using a shield was letting the things hang there. But, from my observation, part of using armor seems to be using it to deflect blows, especially for shields. One doesn't always just stand there and allow hits to impact flat on, hoping the armor will absorb it.

 

[Jeph]

I'm not sure this is the whole story. This would be true if all there was to wearing armor and using a shield was letting the things hang there. But, from my observation, part of using armor seems to be using it to deflect blows, especially for shields. One doesn't always just stand there and allow hits to impact flat on, hoping the armor will absorb it.

That's what armor proficiency represents. Those not trained in the use of armor do just sit there and hope wearing steel shirts is good for more than walking more slowly. Those that are trained, they are the ones use their armor to deflect incomming attacks.

 

[MThibault]

And that is the strength and weakness* of a purely abstract game mechanic, unadulterated by any reference to a fundamental realism. Hit Points, Armor Class, and even the Attack roll, are all so broadly abstract that they are everything and nothing at the same time.

Any given successful attack might not have even been a hit, in fact it needn't even be a swing -- just a nasty look that made the opponent lose a significant portion of his resolve.

When you are dealing with this level of abstraction you could concievably apply the Charisma bonus to attacks or AC, or the Wisdom or Intelligence bonuses. Using Dex for AC and Con for HP is probably the most broadly understandable of the range of options, so if a choice must be made, they probably made the right one.

IMHO, of course.

* I think that it is much more of a strength than a weakness.