Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Are demons/devils/dragons too complex?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Derren" data-source="post: 3934472" data-attributes="member: 2518"><p>Except that to cover all things spellcasting gives you need dozends of SLA and magic items have the tendency to fall into the PCs hands after the fight.</p><p></p><p>And inventing SLAs and balancingthe required magical items with the wealth guidlines for the PCs isn't complicated?</p><p>And you don't stat a dragon that often. Not everything must be so simple that you can run it out of the book. When you don't even want to spend 20 minutes to prepare such an battle then you are better off to play a freeform RPG with no rules at all.</p><p></p><p>Ohh, how many classical dragons have minions....</p><p>None. And it probably adds a lot of atmosphere when the big dragon has to rely on his minions for everything. You, wizard minion. Scry those adventurers for me. You cleric minion, summon me an elemental...</p><p>That way the minions will be the real encounter, not the dragon.</p><p></p><p>The question was more somthing like "Howdoes the dragon contact and give orders to his minions"? Sending carrier pigeons?</p><p></p><p>Yes they are. All of those monsters are incapable to do anything else than pure melee. A Balor simply can't do much intrigue (although his teleportation helps) or build a defensive lair etc. He can only appear and attack. Thats all.</p><p>Even the Mind Flayers are dumb brutes by the rules because they lack any ability to actually enslave creatures so all this lore about Mind Flayers empires etc. is nice fiction but not possible by the rules. They can only levitate, stun people and eat their brains. And they are a viable encounter on the Astral Plane. But building an empire founded on dominated slaves? No.</p><p>To their defense, most of those monsters are able to handle tools and are not solitary which means they live in a society which can build something together. Dragons can't do this. They live most of the time alone and are unable to handle most traditional tools.</p><p></p><p>Without the correct tools you can have an Int as high as you want, you simply can't do much.</p><p>Dragons are especially "worse" in that way. They are not humanoid, fear inspiring, can't hide/sneak and their claws are even unable to hold any tools. Magic is the only way for them to do something productive. Without it they can only sit in a cave and wait for adventurers to come or raid villages. And if they have minions they can only hope that the minions don't realize that they are actually running the show and not the dragon.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Derren, post: 3934472, member: 2518"] Except that to cover all things spellcasting gives you need dozends of SLA and magic items have the tendency to fall into the PCs hands after the fight. And inventing SLAs and balancingthe required magical items with the wealth guidlines for the PCs isn't complicated? And you don't stat a dragon that often. Not everything must be so simple that you can run it out of the book. When you don't even want to spend 20 minutes to prepare such an battle then you are better off to play a freeform RPG with no rules at all. Ohh, how many classical dragons have minions.... None. And it probably adds a lot of atmosphere when the big dragon has to rely on his minions for everything. You, wizard minion. Scry those adventurers for me. You cleric minion, summon me an elemental... That way the minions will be the real encounter, not the dragon. The question was more somthing like "Howdoes the dragon contact and give orders to his minions"? Sending carrier pigeons? Yes they are. All of those monsters are incapable to do anything else than pure melee. A Balor simply can't do much intrigue (although his teleportation helps) or build a defensive lair etc. He can only appear and attack. Thats all. Even the Mind Flayers are dumb brutes by the rules because they lack any ability to actually enslave creatures so all this lore about Mind Flayers empires etc. is nice fiction but not possible by the rules. They can only levitate, stun people and eat their brains. And they are a viable encounter on the Astral Plane. But building an empire founded on dominated slaves? No. To their defense, most of those monsters are able to handle tools and are not solitary which means they live in a society which can build something together. Dragons can't do this. They live most of the time alone and are unable to handle most traditional tools. Without the correct tools you can have an Int as high as you want, you simply can't do much. Dragons are especially "worse" in that way. They are not humanoid, fear inspiring, can't hide/sneak and their claws are even unable to hold any tools. Magic is the only way for them to do something productive. Without it they can only sit in a cave and wait for adventurers to come or raid villages. And if they have minions they can only hope that the minions don't realize that they are actually running the show and not the dragon. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Are demons/devils/dragons too complex?
Top