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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Midknightsun" data-source="post: 3939154" data-attributes="member: 46459">I agree with the overcomplicatedness of some of these critters, and would like to see spellcasting reduced to spell like abilities, or supernatural abilities.  As far as scry and die on the dragons, I can't even be sure that's going to be a possibility in 4e, along with several other things that were "game breaking" in 3e, but lets just assume. . . and then assume the designers probably thought of this.What would dragons have to compensate?Supernatural senses that virtually eliminate surprise, even while "sleeping" (maybe they don't sleep often, or only very lightly--heck, if elves can do it. . . .) even from a tp? Thus, eliminating any chance of "getting the jump" on them.  Senses that allow them to see through ilusions?  Not out of the question.  Plus the thing gets a +5 on its save (against scry) unless you've met it in person, and its spell resistance applies against the scrying. . . . first failed attempt and it'll know something is up. . . . then the minions do some recon and have at least a day before you can try again.  High resistance to magic, making spellcaster kills questionable at best,  maybe making scying  attempts nearly futile? . . . and also adds to the ability to press spellcasters into service. (Just boost SR to compensate for spell loss)  Lairing in an environment hostile to PCs is also probable and useful. Ritual magics that, while taking longer, don't clog up combat but allow them to do some nifty things outside of it?  Sounds reasonable.Personally, though, I like the idea of dragons being creatures "of" magic, and not a creature that casts spells.  They should, IMHO, all but radiate eldritch power to the point where magic is overall less effective to trifling to them, depending on the spellcaster's power, while having "magical" but not necessarily "spell" abilities themselves.Of course, it be possible to tack caster levels on if you really wanted, but there are other ways of making dragons tough than just by adding caster abilities.And again, some are taking 3e milestones and applying them to 4e.  from what I understand, though, spellcasting is going to be nerfed a bit, so scrying and dying may not even be a viable option.</blockquote>

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