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Are Dice Pools Good, Actually?
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<blockquote data-quote="schneeland" data-source="post: 7907043" data-attributes="member: 6900337"><p>I feel dice pools have a number of advantages over plain rolls with modifiers (some of them mentioned already by [USER=6993955]@Fenris-77[/USER] ) :</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">With a skill and attribute system that has single digit values for both, you can directly translate these values into the number of dice you roll, so it's quite easy to grasp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">When you roll a larger number of dice, your attributes and skills kind of directly translate into something physical, so you can feel more powerful as your character evolves</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The results are less swingy than rolling a larger die (such as the d20) and adding a modifier (at least as long as modifiers are relatively low and there are no backup strategies)</li> </ul><p>Assuming success are counted (instead of adding all values), you also have the benefit of:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Being able to easily define a gradual level of success (e.g. success at a cost)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Counting numbers > X is an operation that comes easily even to people averse to math</li> </ul><p>That being said, there are also disadvantages:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Most people don't know the probabilities for success for dice pools by heart; this gets tremendously worse, if you combine dice pools with variable success thresholds</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Reducing the dice pool by a die (or adding one) is not the same as requiring more successes, e.g. assuming you success on 5 or 6 on a d6, the probability of rolling 2 or more successes with a pool of 5d6 is roughly 80%; now if we say the check requires 3 successes to indicate a higher difficulty, the probability becomes roughly 25%, but if we instead indicate higher difficulty by removing a die from the pool, the probability of rolling at least 2 successes with a pool of 4d6 is roughly 52%. This poses two problems and one constraint:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">the probability drop-off for additional required successes is quite steep, so it's hard to adjust difficulty gracefully</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">if you want to indicate difficulty by removing (or adding) dice, you need to announce it in advance</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">and if you mix both approaches, judging probabilities really becomes a nightmare</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the number of dice in the pool becomes too large, speed at the table again suffers; the number seems to vary a bit according to personal preferences, but personally, I prefer pools to be not larger than 10, maybe 12 at best</li> </ul><p>So in essence, it is mostly a matter of game design and personal preference. I tend to like dice pools that are composed of d6, but then Shadowrun was one of the my first TTRPGs, so there's a certain bias.</p><p></p><p>One closing note: if you don't feel good about requiring more than one success for tasks, the Free League games use a d6 dice pool system where only a 6 is a success. That way, for most tasks, one success is enough. The downside is that you fail quite often with this system and all games rely on generating conditions or some meta currency to allow re-rolls of dice not showing a 6.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="schneeland, post: 7907043, member: 6900337"] I feel dice pools have a number of advantages over plain rolls with modifiers (some of them mentioned already by [USER=6993955]@Fenris-77[/USER] ) : [LIST] [*]With a skill and attribute system that has single digit values for both, you can directly translate these values into the number of dice you roll, so it's quite easy to grasp [*]When you roll a larger number of dice, your attributes and skills kind of directly translate into something physical, so you can feel more powerful as your character evolves [*]The results are less swingy than rolling a larger die (such as the d20) and adding a modifier (at least as long as modifiers are relatively low and there are no backup strategies) [/LIST] Assuming success are counted (instead of adding all values), you also have the benefit of: [LIST] [*]Being able to easily define a gradual level of success (e.g. success at a cost) [*]Counting numbers > X is an operation that comes easily even to people averse to math [/LIST] That being said, there are also disadvantages: [LIST] [*]Most people don't know the probabilities for success for dice pools by heart; this gets tremendously worse, if you combine dice pools with variable success thresholds [*]Reducing the dice pool by a die (or adding one) is not the same as requiring more successes, e.g. assuming you success on 5 or 6 on a d6, the probability of rolling 2 or more successes with a pool of 5d6 is roughly 80%; now if we say the check requires 3 successes to indicate a higher difficulty, the probability becomes roughly 25%, but if we instead indicate higher difficulty by removing a die from the pool, the probability of rolling at least 2 successes with a pool of 4d6 is roughly 52%. This poses two problems and one constraint: [LIST] [*]the probability drop-off for additional required successes is quite steep, so it's hard to adjust difficulty gracefully [*]if you want to indicate difficulty by removing (or adding) dice, you need to announce it in advance [*]and if you mix both approaches, judging probabilities really becomes a nightmare [/LIST] [*]If the number of dice in the pool becomes too large, speed at the table again suffers; the number seems to vary a bit according to personal preferences, but personally, I prefer pools to be not larger than 10, maybe 12 at best [/LIST] So in essence, it is mostly a matter of game design and personal preference. I tend to like dice pools that are composed of d6, but then Shadowrun was one of the my first TTRPGs, so there's a certain bias. One closing note: if you don't feel good about requiring more than one success for tasks, the Free League games use a d6 dice pool system where only a 6 is a success. That way, for most tasks, one success is enough. The downside is that you fail quite often with this system and all games rely on generating conditions or some meta currency to allow re-rolls of dice not showing a 6. [/QUOTE]
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