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Are "evil gods" necessary? [THREAD NECRO]
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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9123937" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>Yes, I'm necro'ing my own thread, because I posted a link to it for [USER=6779196]@Charlaquin[/USER] and then went back and re-read it and still found the whole thing interesting. Mainly because unlike a lot of D&D discussion, it wasn't about people primarily saying "I'm right, you're wrong!" but instead talking with reason and personal opinion.</p><p></p><p>Now that we are three years past the point of the last post... I can see that I indeed did take some of my own opinions to heart when I fleshed out my Theros pantheon. Despite WotC indeed making Mogis an "evil god" as per his assigned alignment (along with Athreos, Erebos and Pharika all being defined as "evil" for whatever reason WotC decided to assign them)... I went in and re-did all the deity's portfolios to give all of them positive and neutral/negative attributes, and make them all outside the paradigm of defined "Good and Evil". Heliod might be thought of as a golden boy-- but he's also still a massive, prideful jerk. So his portfolio has what people might say are so-called "good" domains and so-called "evil" domains. And the same holds true for all of them. This is how I eventually defined my Theros pantheon:</p><p></p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><strong>Principal Kindred</strong></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Heliod</td><td>M</td><td>God of the Sun</td><td>the sun, oaths, bravery, arrogance</td></tr><tr><td>Erebos</td><td>M</td><td>God of the Dead</td><td>death, acceptance, wealth, bitterness</td></tr><tr><td>Nylea</td><td>F</td><td>God of the Hunt</td><td>nature, the hunt, rebirth, predation</td></tr><tr><td>Purphoros</td><td>M</td><td>God of the Forge</td><td>fire, artisans, creation, destruction</td></tr><tr><td>Thassa</td><td>F</td><td>God of the Sea</td><td>the sea, gradual change, dispassion</td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><strong>Succeeding Kindred</strong></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Athreos</td><td>M</td><td>God of Passage</td><td>journeys, borders, apathy</td></tr><tr><td>Ephara</td><td>F</td><td>God of the Polis</td><td>industry, civics, philosophy, law</td></tr><tr><td>Iroas</td><td>M</td><td>God of Victory</td><td>honor, confidence, discipline</td></tr><tr><td>Karametra</td><td>F</td><td>God of Harvests</td><td>hearth, agriculture, domestication</td></tr><tr><td>Keranos</td><td>M</td><td>God of Storms</td><td>storms, wisdom, epiphany, impatience</td></tr><tr><td>Kruphix</td><td>M</td><td>God of Horizons</td><td>horizons, time, mysteries, fate</td></tr><tr><td>Mogis</td><td>M</td><td>God of Zeal</td><td>comraderie, fury, love, bloodlust</td></tr><tr><td>Pharika</td><td>F</td><td>God of Affliction</td><td>medicine, poison, science, grief</td></tr><tr><td>Phenax</td><td>M</td><td>God of Deception</td><td>cunning, subtlety, manipulation</td></tr><tr><td>Xenagos</td><td>M</td><td>God of Revelry</td><td>celebration, debauchery, schadenfreude</td></tr></table><p></p><p></p><p>It ended up being really useful to me, as my players did eventually run into a minotaur priest of Mogis, and they actually engaged him as a person first and foremost, rather than just default to "Priest of an evil god! Kill him!" (which is what I was afraid my players might have tended to do because it's just easier.) And the priest was all about having "blood brothers" and intense love and friendship with his traveling compatriots-- while at the same time coming from a minotaur tribe that was rumored to be bloodthirsty and violent. It made for more interesting discussion and roleplay by removing the "default alignment" from the gods to begin with and make every character their own individual, rather than merely a stand-in for their gods' attributes (and thus more easy to just treat as inhuman.)</p><p></p><p>By the sake token, I have indeed created my own divine pantheon for a potential future homebrew campaign world that does in fact remove "gods" from the setting. Or actually-- more to the point-- 'God' becomes a title, rather than a creature type. The setting has named and personified "head-honcho" LG Archangels, CG Archfey, LE Archdevils, and CE Archdemons... and thus all four groups are considered "the gods" when people speak about these divine beings. And what's nice about seeing the new Warlock subclasses in the 5E24 playtests is that they all now can pretty much line up to this format if I ever decided to run this game and wanted to remove the cleric class and use Warlocks (probably renamed 'Priests') instead. Celestial, Fey, Fiend (for the archdevils) and move GOO over to archdemons. Although truth be told, I'm actually probably never going to get around to it, even if it does look and work nicely, LOL.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 9123937, member: 7006"] Yes, I'm necro'ing my own thread, because I posted a link to it for [USER=6779196]@Charlaquin[/USER] and then went back and re-read it and still found the whole thing interesting. Mainly because unlike a lot of D&D discussion, it wasn't about people primarily saying "I'm right, you're wrong!" but instead talking with reason and personal opinion. Now that we are three years past the point of the last post... I can see that I indeed did take some of my own opinions to heart when I fleshed out my Theros pantheon. Despite WotC indeed making Mogis an "evil god" as per his assigned alignment (along with Athreos, Erebos and Pharika all being defined as "evil" for whatever reason WotC decided to assign them)... I went in and re-did all the deity's portfolios to give all of them positive and neutral/negative attributes, and make them all outside the paradigm of defined "Good and Evil". Heliod might be thought of as a golden boy-- but he's also still a massive, prideful jerk. So his portfolio has what people might say are so-called "good" domains and so-called "evil" domains. And the same holds true for all of them. This is how I eventually defined my Theros pantheon: [TABLE] [TR] [TD][B]Principal Kindred[/B][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Heliod[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of the Sun[/TD] [TD]the sun, oaths, bravery, arrogance[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Erebos[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of the Dead[/TD] [TD]death, acceptance, wealth, bitterness[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Nylea[/TD] [TD]F[/TD] [TD]God of the Hunt[/TD] [TD]nature, the hunt, rebirth, predation[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Purphoros[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of the Forge[/TD] [TD]fire, artisans, creation, destruction[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Thassa[/TD] [TD]F[/TD] [TD]God of the Sea[/TD] [TD]the sea, gradual change, dispassion[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][B]Succeeding Kindred[/B][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Athreos[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of Passage[/TD] [TD]journeys, borders, apathy[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Ephara[/TD] [TD]F[/TD] [TD]God of the Polis[/TD] [TD]industry, civics, philosophy, law[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Iroas[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of Victory[/TD] [TD]honor, confidence, discipline[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Karametra[/TD] [TD]F[/TD] [TD]God of Harvests[/TD] [TD]hearth, agriculture, domestication[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Keranos[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of Storms[/TD] [TD]storms, wisdom, epiphany, impatience[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Kruphix[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of Horizons[/TD] [TD]horizons, time, mysteries, fate[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Mogis[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of Zeal[/TD] [TD]comraderie, fury, love, bloodlust[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Pharika[/TD] [TD]F[/TD] [TD]God of Affliction[/TD] [TD]medicine, poison, science, grief[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Phenax[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of Deception[/TD] [TD]cunning, subtlety, manipulation[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Xenagos[/TD] [TD]M[/TD] [TD]God of Revelry[/TD] [TD]celebration, debauchery, schadenfreude[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] It ended up being really useful to me, as my players did eventually run into a minotaur priest of Mogis, and they actually engaged him as a person first and foremost, rather than just default to "Priest of an evil god! Kill him!" (which is what I was afraid my players might have tended to do because it's just easier.) And the priest was all about having "blood brothers" and intense love and friendship with his traveling compatriots-- while at the same time coming from a minotaur tribe that was rumored to be bloodthirsty and violent. It made for more interesting discussion and roleplay by removing the "default alignment" from the gods to begin with and make every character their own individual, rather than merely a stand-in for their gods' attributes (and thus more easy to just treat as inhuman.) By the sake token, I have indeed created my own divine pantheon for a potential future homebrew campaign world that does in fact remove "gods" from the setting. Or actually-- more to the point-- 'God' becomes a title, rather than a creature type. The setting has named and personified "head-honcho" LG Archangels, CG Archfey, LE Archdevils, and CE Archdemons... and thus all four groups are considered "the gods" when people speak about these divine beings. And what's nice about seeing the new Warlock subclasses in the 5E24 playtests is that they all now can pretty much line up to this format if I ever decided to run this game and wanted to remove the cleric class and use Warlocks (probably renamed 'Priests') instead. Celestial, Fey, Fiend (for the archdevils) and move GOO over to archdemons. Although truth be told, I'm actually probably never going to get around to it, even if it does look and work nicely, LOL. [/QUOTE]
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