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<blockquote data-quote="Bastoche" data-source="post: 2630942" data-attributes="member: 306">HeroquestGRUPSD&amp;DNone among the above are in any way similar to the other in terms of actual play.&quot;obstacles&quot; becomes a problem with this definition. What is an obstacle is the very difference between the 3 games I mentionned above. &quot;obstacles&quot; in D&amp;D = Challenge Rating. In other words, slaying a monster, disarming a trap, uncovering a plot. In such a game, the PCs are in cooperative competition among each other. Performance is important. As an illustration of that, count the number of threads where a guy (player or dm) complains about the guy who &quot;plays a halfling with 10 as it's highest score&quot;. Or the guy who multiclass fighter mage rogue or the guy who dual wield longswords as a ranger, etc. Or any other &quot;inneficient&quot; combo. They also are more or less in direct competition with the DM (or it's monsters/traps/minions call them however you like). This is illustrated by thread inquiring about what should grant XP or not. If the players finds a clever way to &quot;avoid&quot; the challenge, it doesn't deserve XP in D&amp;D. That's why people used to 2E finds that 3E has a &quot;CRPG&quot; feel.&quot;obstacles&quot; in GRUPS is anything that the imagined life can throw at the PCs as long as it's self consistent/coherent rules-wise. It's a simulation. The goal of the game is to emulate an alternate reality as precisely as possible.,&quot;obstacles&quot; in heroquest are inner conflicts about what should be done until the end of the world. You KNOW how your character will end up but how is the &quot;obstacle&quot; or what overcoming the &quot;obstacles&quot; thrive to address.The riddle of steel is another game that fits the &quot;heroquest&quot; definition though differently. &quot;Obstacles&quot; are about when should you fight or not. What is worth fighting for.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bastoche, post: 2630942, member: 306"] Heroquest GRUPS D&D None among the above are in any way similar to the other in terms of actual play. "obstacles" becomes a problem with this definition. What [i]is[/i] an obstacle is the very difference between the 3 games I mentionned above. "obstacles" in D&D = Challenge Rating. In other words, slaying a monster, disarming a trap, uncovering a plot. In such a game, the PCs are in cooperative competition among each other. Performance is important. As an illustration of that, count the number of threads where a guy (player or dm) complains about the guy who "plays a halfling with 10 as it's highest score". Or the guy who multiclass fighter mage rogue or the guy who dual wield longswords as a ranger, etc. Or any other "inneficient" combo. They also are more or less in direct competition with the DM (or it's monsters/traps/minions call them however you like). This is illustrated by thread inquiring about what should grant XP or not. If the players finds a clever way to "avoid" the challenge, it doesn't deserve XP in D&D. That's why people used to 2E finds that 3E has a "CRPG" feel. "obstacles" in GRUPS is anything that the imagined life can throw at the PCs as long as it's self consistent/coherent rules-wise. It's a simulation. The goal of the game is to emulate an alternate reality as precisely as possible., "obstacles" in heroquest are inner conflicts about what should be done until the end of the world. You KNOW how your character will end up but how is the "obstacle" or what overcoming the "obstacles" thrive to address. The riddle of steel is another game that fits the "heroquest" definition though differently. "Obstacles" are about when should you fight or not. What is worth fighting for. [/QUOTE]

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