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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2545254" data-attributes="member: 5777">I am wondering what sort of characters that we are looking at for the spiked chain actually. It sounds like they can do pretty much anything they like.The spiked chain itself requires spending a feat itself.It has a fairly low damage threshold for a two handed weapon.In order to trip well you need to get improved trip which requires int 13+ and combat expertise.The need of combat reflexes to really be able to take advantage of the extra reach.In order to get a good use out of combat reflexes you need a decent dex.In order to get a good trip check you need a good str (the higher the better).So it sounds like we are talking about a character who needs a pile of feats and has a str around 16+ a dex of around 14+ and a int of around 13+ just to begin, along with needing a decent con (say 14+ because he will be in melee combat). Point buy value 27 so far, and leaving your wis and cha at 8 is not exactly a good move, and this is the bare minimum. I'd have to say that the minimum guy I would want to play this with would be Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Wis 10, Int 14, Cha 8 for a point buy of 30. Looks like a decent character to me really, although for a fighter type I'd really rather have that wisdom be a little higher if I could manage it.After that there are a number of different ways to get around reach (tumble, cover, various feats, surprise if the guy doesnt have combat reflexes, running the person out if they dont have a high enough dex, that sort of thing). Along with needing to make a lot of checks and do them well to do all of the impressive things people want to do with them.It sounds like it could be fun and impressive, but given the sheer amount of prereqs and things that need to be put into the style shouldnt it be effective at that point?It isnt like there arent tons of ways to get around it (anything ranged comes to mind, along with the aoo negation techniques), it is simply a valid build choice. There are other valid build choices out there, just because each can be used to great effect in its specialty doesnt make it bad or overpowered.Remember, there are drawbacks to this sort of build <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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