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Message: <blockquote data-quote="fusangite" data-source="post: 1219523" data-attributes="member: 7240">Joshua says,I don't know what you mean by "prove" here. There is no way to achieve irrefutable proof. All I am doing is showing that it is significantly more probable. You and Umbran seem to be taking the position that if my assertion is not indisputably certain, it must be false. 1. There are intelligence-based barriers to entry for people to play RPGs.2. People as a whole are more likely to spend their time practicing a hobby they are good at than one they are bad at.Which of these statements do you dispute?Pollsters are not interested in causation.I don't know what you mean here.Remember: it's not just self-selection I'm talking about. I'm also talking about barriers to entry. Are you asserting that literacy and numeracy barriers don't exist for our hobby? Spell that out for me. You must mean something different by "causality" than I do. Well, here is what Umbran says:So, no, I don't take it that he accepts IQ and intelligence as identical. In fact, he seems to be questioning whether there is any relation between them at all.So that I don't have to start disputing you with polling data about how middle class blacks and hispanics are much more likely to be Democrats than whites of an identical income level, let's move back to a model I have used before:You have football players. You are comparing them to society at large. I assert that they are stronger than society at large, on average, because there are barriers to entry for people who are physically handicapped. Unless you can show that being a football player also positively correlates to some type of physical incapacity, my work is done.You have gamers. You are comparing them to society at large. I assert that they are more literate and numerate than society at large, on average, because there are literacy and numeracy barriers to entry for RPG participation. I am not required to prove conclusively that nothing else correlates to RPG participation. Unless you can show me data that, of those people who are literate and numerate, the more intelligent ones are less likely to participate in RPGs, I'm done.</blockquote>

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