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Message: <blockquote data-quote="uzagi_akimbo" data-source="post: 1602245" data-attributes="member: 15945">Hmmm, I don't know about the "brokenness". It just lacks understanding by the "S&F" author of just how a harpoon works, and what supplementary rules are/would be .neededSome details seem wrong at first glance - range increment of 30' and weight of 10 lbs seems utterly wrong to me, unless they are refering to some light bone and driftwood Inuit seal hunting harpoons. Actual whaling harpoons used to be rather large ( around 35 - 45 inches in length ), very massive (basically the entire length of the weapon was a forged iron shaft with an eyebolt/loop forged onto the back end , fitted with  wooden grips for better handling ) and usually hurled over very short distances only. The damage (1D10 ) seems ok for that make of harpoon.Whaling harpoons can be easily gleaned by watching "Moby Dick" or in several maritime museums - check this as one possible reference.<a href="http://www.whalingmuseum.org/kendall/whalecraft/whalecraft_index.html" target="_blank">http://www.whalingmuseum.org/kendall/whalecraft/whalecraft_index.html</a>In game terms - a wooden spear (with just a metal head ) weighs 6lbs. and has a range-increment of 20'. An all-metal (with wooden handles ) harpoon shouldn't be capable of being hurled farther than that. If it is lighter, damage and range should be adjusted to spear or javelin levels.So I would say weight 15-20 lbs weight and range increment 10' sounds far more accurate for metal whaling harpoons than the S&F description. And - how many harpoons (plus line - which needs to be readied and held fast ) is one character going to actually carry, even at 10lbs, the weight of a greatsword  ?Anyway - it would prove very hard to hurl a harpoon more than 30' if its line was only the stated 30' long - and even then it should be securely fastened down or held by a very strong person ("tug-of-war" Str tests spring to mind ).Of course, an intelligent foe could easily cut/sunder the line (or possibly the weapon itself) , freeing himself. If you throw it further, you may loose the line...   And a heavier/sturdier line or even a chain should definitely add to weight and cause a penalty to the ranged attack - both from drag and effect on the throw itself. Whaling lines actually used to be several hundred feet long - but then they were transported in a boat, not on a characters back.The Reflex save DC seems rather steep - on the other hand, it does not really hamper a melee character all that much (especially if he cuts/sunders the line ) - except of course for charges. I frankly have no idea how they explain the reduction in speed, though (if it is due to harpoon sticking in the target - why don't  spears, arrows, javelins and such cause the same effect ? if it due to the harpooner holding onto the line - why is the target hampered when charging towards, say, the harpooner ?) - that should be very much dependent on the size of the harpooned target (even with an unbreakable line) - the limits for grappling might be applicable here, from a common sense point of view. I am uncertain about the concentration check (DC 15) for spellcasting by the victim - if actual damage was done each round, I could see the point, but that is not the case . Comparable "sticking" weapons such as the quills of the Howler or from "Quillblast" give a penalty to Dex and/or all actions - which strangely is not the case here. On the other hand, most casters are going to cast "defensively" to begin with, and the DC for that is equal or higher anyway.Ruleswise : The damage from removing the weapon was revised in the"Arms and Equipment Guide" (page 8) - a DC 15 heal check prevents it. IMHO the harpoon isn't so much broken, as it is "underruled", e.g. it is lacking rules and/or the author had no idea just how a harpoon works and is handled. ( but after a long hard look at most of the weaponry in d20, _that_ comes as no surprise.).  Use with large dose of common sense and GM "chuzpa"....</blockquote>

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