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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Are humans balanced in 4e?
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 4593430" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>I think this is a mistake. They can release all of the new at-wills they want and humans will still not become noticeably more attractive unless they collapse the design buckets and start putting good utility at-wills in the at-will attack power slot. If you had to pick between, for instance, Pass Forward and Crushing Surge, unless you were a human, things might be different, but as long as all of the at-will attack powers take the same type of action, no number of good at-will attack powers will make humans a more attractive option.</p><p></p><p>Here's why I don't think that the extra at-will will ever be as attractive as a racial power for most classes (wizards are partially an exception because they are the only class with at-wills that will result in friendly fire incidents if used in common situations; but I still think that the fact that there is not yet a +Int/+Wis race in the Monster Manual or Dragon magazine is probably the primary reason that humans are an attractive racial choice for wizards). The essential problem is that, while at-wills are situational, they generally cover a lot of situations and, especially at higher levels, at-will powers see only limited use. Consequently, if you already have the two at-will powers that are the most advantageous for your class and build, the time when the third best at-will will be a better choice than any encounter or daily power that you have as well as a better choice than either of your two most advantageous at-will powers is almost vanishingly small. It certainly won't come up once every encounter. It probably won't come up once every twelve encounters. (My own experience playing an LFR human warlord--a build which, next to wizard, has the largest number of good at-will powers and, in my particular setup (Wolf Pack Tactics, Brash Assault, Commander's Strike), a primary at-will power that is of variable usefulness based on the DM and situation (Brash Assault)) is most likely to come across situations where the third at-will should theoretically be useful--is this: I have played through seven modules (3-4 combat encounters per mod) with the character and I have only used Commander's Strike once (with a second situation where I would have used Commander's Strike if the DM hadn't bit on every Brash Assault opportunity I had tossed him to that point). If the third at-will power is essentially negligible for that warlord, it is going to be negligible for most human characters). On the other hand, racial encounter powers like dragon breath, halfling luck, and elven accuracy DO come up every encounter. Powers like Infernal rebuke, dwarven durability, and fey step may not come up quite every encounter, but they often come up every other encounter. And to add insult to injury, even when it does come up, the extra at-will power, is almost never going to provide as much of an advantage vis a vis your first or second at-will power as one of the other racial abilities would. So the racial encounter powers are better and come up six to twelve times as often. And that's for a class with multiple good at-will powers. If we're talking Priest's Shield, here... not so much.</p><p></p><p>Feats are the area where humans have the potential to shine, but they still only have one top-shelf racial feat: Action Surge.</p><p></p><p>Timely Revival is one of the worst excuses for a feat they have printed. (Really, it is only useful when my character has been beaten into unconsciousness and then it gives me a mere 5% chance not to lose my action; yeah, that's the picture of a top shelf feat).</p><p></p><p>Avenging Spirit looks like it has potential but has several issues. First, how often do your allies really go down? I'm guessing it's more like once every ten encounters than once every encounter. Action points are great and all, but in terms of extra actions per combat, it's not that impressive. The bigger problem, however is this: the feat does not grant an exception to the one action point per combat limit. Therefore, the real question is not, "how often do your allies go down?" but rather, "how often do your allies go down in a combat where you have not already spent an action point?" In my experience, the kind of tough encounters that knock allies down will also tend to be the kind of encounters that draw out your action points early. Therefore, the situations that are most likely to trigger the feat are the very situations where it likely to be useless.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 4593430, member: 3146"] I think this is a mistake. They can release all of the new at-wills they want and humans will still not become noticeably more attractive unless they collapse the design buckets and start putting good utility at-wills in the at-will attack power slot. If you had to pick between, for instance, Pass Forward and Crushing Surge, unless you were a human, things might be different, but as long as all of the at-will attack powers take the same type of action, no number of good at-will attack powers will make humans a more attractive option. Here's why I don't think that the extra at-will will ever be as attractive as a racial power for most classes (wizards are partially an exception because they are the only class with at-wills that will result in friendly fire incidents if used in common situations; but I still think that the fact that there is not yet a +Int/+Wis race in the Monster Manual or Dragon magazine is probably the primary reason that humans are an attractive racial choice for wizards). The essential problem is that, while at-wills are situational, they generally cover a lot of situations and, especially at higher levels, at-will powers see only limited use. Consequently, if you already have the two at-will powers that are the most advantageous for your class and build, the time when the third best at-will will be a better choice than any encounter or daily power that you have as well as a better choice than either of your two most advantageous at-will powers is almost vanishingly small. It certainly won't come up once every encounter. It probably won't come up once every twelve encounters. (My own experience playing an LFR human warlord--a build which, next to wizard, has the largest number of good at-will powers and, in my particular setup (Wolf Pack Tactics, Brash Assault, Commander's Strike), a primary at-will power that is of variable usefulness based on the DM and situation (Brash Assault)) is most likely to come across situations where the third at-will should theoretically be useful--is this: I have played through seven modules (3-4 combat encounters per mod) with the character and I have only used Commander's Strike once (with a second situation where I would have used Commander's Strike if the DM hadn't bit on every Brash Assault opportunity I had tossed him to that point). If the third at-will power is essentially negligible for that warlord, it is going to be negligible for most human characters). On the other hand, racial encounter powers like dragon breath, halfling luck, and elven accuracy DO come up every encounter. Powers like Infernal rebuke, dwarven durability, and fey step may not come up quite every encounter, but they often come up every other encounter. And to add insult to injury, even when it does come up, the extra at-will power, is almost never going to provide as much of an advantage vis a vis your first or second at-will power as one of the other racial abilities would. So the racial encounter powers are better and come up six to twelve times as often. And that's for a class with multiple good at-will powers. If we're talking Priest's Shield, here... not so much. Feats are the area where humans have the potential to shine, but they still only have one top-shelf racial feat: Action Surge. Timely Revival is one of the worst excuses for a feat they have printed. (Really, it is only useful when my character has been beaten into unconsciousness and then it gives me a mere 5% chance not to lose my action; yeah, that's the picture of a top shelf feat). Avenging Spirit looks like it has potential but has several issues. First, how often do your allies really go down? I'm guessing it's more like once every ten encounters than once every encounter. Action points are great and all, but in terms of extra actions per combat, it's not that impressive. The bigger problem, however is this: the feat does not grant an exception to the one action point per combat limit. Therefore, the real question is not, "how often do your allies go down?" but rather, "how often do your allies go down in a combat where you have not already spent an action point?" In my experience, the kind of tough encounters that knock allies down will also tend to be the kind of encounters that draw out your action points early. Therefore, the situations that are most likely to trigger the feat are the very situations where it likely to be useless. [/QUOTE]
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