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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Are humans balanced in 4e?
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 4650269" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>Given the expanded importance of secondary stats with new classes and builds (battlerager, barbarian, etc), feats (Marked Scourge, etc), paragon paths (Son of Mercy, etc), as well as concept essential racial feats for other races (Draconic Arrogance for example assures that Dragonborn simply make better push focused martial characters than humans, period and end of story), I don't think there is really design space for humans to be better than second (or third, fourth, or fifth in the case of options like a strength/con fighter) loser for any class or concept.</p><p></p><p>You can disagree with me if you wish but I think that 4th edition play numbers bear out that such is the case. (And if anyone thinks that players as a whole choose their character concepts for non-power focused reasons, I would like to see how they explain why post FRPG strength clerics and paladins all seem to worship Tempus. (My argument is that the reason they do this is that Righteous Rage of Tempus is crazy-broken-good and few players will pass up a power boost to play a cleric or paladin of Selune, Ilmatar, Torm, Sharess, etc)).</p><p></p><p>The long and the short of it is that a bonus at-will is always inferior to a decent racial encounter power and that +2 to any stat is always inferior to a single targeted +2. In an environment where you have a near-unlimited number of races, there is always one that will be better than humans at any given role. Therefore, humans see little play in fourth edition and will see less and less play as time goes on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 4650269, member: 3146"] Given the expanded importance of secondary stats with new classes and builds (battlerager, barbarian, etc), feats (Marked Scourge, etc), paragon paths (Son of Mercy, etc), as well as concept essential racial feats for other races (Draconic Arrogance for example assures that Dragonborn simply make better push focused martial characters than humans, period and end of story), I don't think there is really design space for humans to be better than second (or third, fourth, or fifth in the case of options like a strength/con fighter) loser for any class or concept. You can disagree with me if you wish but I think that 4th edition play numbers bear out that such is the case. (And if anyone thinks that players as a whole choose their character concepts for non-power focused reasons, I would like to see how they explain why post FRPG strength clerics and paladins all seem to worship Tempus. (My argument is that the reason they do this is that Righteous Rage of Tempus is crazy-broken-good and few players will pass up a power boost to play a cleric or paladin of Selune, Ilmatar, Torm, Sharess, etc)). The long and the short of it is that a bonus at-will is always inferior to a decent racial encounter power and that +2 to any stat is always inferior to a single targeted +2. In an environment where you have a near-unlimited number of races, there is always one that will be better than humans at any given role. Therefore, humans see little play in fourth edition and will see less and less play as time goes on. [/QUOTE]
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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Are humans balanced in 4e?
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