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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 4667710" data-attributes="member: 12731">Thinking old spells should be of the same level as before is bad for the game.As others have said, long-duration charm effects do exist in the game (see Succubus) but they aren't made available to player characters, and certainly not at first level.The Charm spell has always been stupid-powerful. The only way to rationalize it is if you run a kick-in-the-door combat heavy game, where the only use for it was to take out foes in combat. Out of combat, it is incredibly unbalanced and over-powered.But 4E doesn't need to stick to old stupid design.And remember, in 4E no longer do NPCs play by the same rules PCs need to play by. (This is good!). If you want to add such an effect to your game, if it is a NPC (a classic witch in the woods perhaps), simply steal the mechanism from the Succubus.If it is for the PCs, you need to ensure it can't be abused to short-circuit adventures or combat.The latter part is easy, make it a ritual. Then it can't be used in combat.This also neatly makes it difficult to use to trick someone.Ideally, you should only be able to charm &quot;defeated&quot; creatures. In the sense that if you could kill it, then it won't be unbalanced to charm it.Then it's probably wise to add an out for the DM. Too many spells/rituals/whatever have been designed without story in mind.Just by adding something as simple as &quot;the charmed creature gets a new save in situations of extreme duress at the DM's discretion&quot; will allow the DM to break off the effect if the story demands it without having to resort to outright cheating.And oh, one final thing: don't forget to add a level restriction to the ritual. You should probably not be able to charm a creature much higher level than yourself.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 4667710, member: 12731"] Thinking old spells should be of the same level as before is bad for the game. As others have said, long-duration charm effects do exist in the game (see Succubus) but they aren't made available to player characters, and certainly not at first level. The Charm spell has always been stupid-powerful. The only way to rationalize it is if you run a kick-in-the-door combat heavy game, where the only use for it was to take out foes in combat. Out of combat, it is incredibly unbalanced and over-powered. But 4E doesn't need to stick to old stupid design. And remember, in 4E no longer do NPCs play by the same rules PCs need to play by. (This is good!). If you want to add such an effect to your game, if it is a NPC (a classic witch in the woods perhaps), simply steal the mechanism from the Succubus. If it is for the PCs, you need to ensure it can't be abused to short-circuit adventures or combat. The latter part is easy, make it a ritual. Then it can't be used in combat. This also neatly makes it difficult to use to trick someone. Ideally, you should only be able to charm "defeated" creatures. In the sense that if you could kill it, then it won't be unbalanced to charm it. Then it's probably wise to add an out for the DM. Too many spells/rituals/whatever have been designed without story in mind. Just by adding something as simple as "the charmed creature gets a new save in situations of extreme duress at the DM's discretion" will allow the DM to break off the effect if the story demands it without having to resort to outright cheating. And oh, one final thing: don't forget to add a level restriction to the ritual. You should probably not be able to charm a creature much higher level than yourself. [/QUOTE]

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