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Message: <blockquote data-quote="maggot" data-source="post: 782433" data-attributes="member: 1005">Re: Re: Are Marilith's really CR17?Do you think her CR17 reflects a network of spies and underlings?  Wouldn't her spies and underlings have there own CRs to account for their abilities?The only underlings that she can control through her own powers are undead via her "animate dead" ability (not a threat at all) and more demons or so she can summon for an hour once per day.  The latter ability only works 50% of the time, and lasts but an hour.  She can't have another friend around all the time.Maybe we screwed up and she should have had more companions.  Still it would have come down to: wizard casts haste on barbarian.  Cleric destroys undead.  Barbarian tumbles through remaining opponents and lays smack down on demon.  Demon dead.  Not much of a CR17 encounter when level 11 wizard losses a spells and level 13 barbarian uses a rage.I'm thought that CR17 should show her power on her own.  Regardless of other creatures around, regardless of equipment.  No one says that Dragons need to be wearing mithral breastplates to live up to there CR, or that a level 17 cleric should have an army of spies to be a threat to a 17th level party.As it was a supposedly CR 17 creature had half the hit points of a 17th level cleric, far less spell ability, far less feats and combat ablity.  The marilith is a total wimp.</blockquote>