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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5778030" data-attributes="member: 2011">I find it interesting how often people say "crappy DM" or "crappy players" when the game doesn't work out like someone enjoys. Not all DMs (or players for that matter) will recognize inherent design problems with an encounter until the encounter is actually underway. A lot of the early 4E bad encounter design wasn't even recognized as such until a lot of discussion occurred here on the boards (and even the various Lair Assaults are not what I would actually call good encounter design, 3 years here down the road).Some DMs do not want to just stop a grinding encounter cold, or don't want to change an encounter on the fly. If there is a set solution for an encounter, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Maybe not to every player's taste, but a different player might have had a great time in the same encounter.Also, if players are having an issue with an encounter, few of them will speak up mid-encounter and tell the DM that the encounter is grinding.With regard to the never-ending minion encounter (or at least a minion encounter that ends, but has a high number of minions), I think that these are some of the most challenging encounters that I have ever seen. The players quickly run out of multi-target Encounter powers and not all PCs have multi-target At Will powers.  As long as slightly more minions are entering the fray than the PCs are killing each round, that forces the players to start judiciously using their Daily powers. I think such an encounter is often more threatening and challenging than most Solo (even with revised Solo rules and even with additional lesser NPCs helping a Solo) encounters that I have experienced.I've also seen a lot of Striker builds that are designed for as much damage as possible versus a single target. Throwing a lot of minions at such a PC might force that player to re-evaluate the 'one trick pony damage machine' concept and learn to have a slightly more well rounded PC.</blockquote>

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