Are monsters of equal level a challenge?

[Rechan]

This was brought up earlier. Are monsters of a level equal to the party a good challenge? Or are they, relatively, a cake walk, and therefore to Challegne and Threaten the party, you need an encounter of a level higher than the party?

I hope Mouse or someone else can answer this question. Because we saw that the first level PCs got their clocks cleaned by a 4th level monster, but is that what is needed to show that PCs must be challenged: throw something bigger than their level?

 

[frankthedm]

Well, if i understand correctly, five level one monsters against a five person party is supposed to be as challenging as 1 CR monster was against four 3E PCs.

 

[VannATLC]

This was brought up earlier. Are monsters of a level equal to the party a good challenge? Or are they, relatively, a cake walk, and therefore to Challegne and Threaten the party, you need an encounter of a level higher than the party?

I hope Mouse or someone else can answer this question. Because we saw that the first level PCs got their clocks cleaned by a 4th level monster, but is that what is needed to show that PCs must be challenged: throw something bigger than their level?

I don't have the link-fu or the time to show you the spots, but this has all been answered.

You assemble mobs into an encounter based on their XP levels, which should, for a balanced encounter, match the parties XP rating. Its similiar to CR, but far more streamlined.

6 Level 10 PC's, for instance, would still, as I understand it, be challanged by 60 Level 1 Orcs. (Analogy may not be accurate based on real figures >.>)

The Delve people got the their butts handed to them by a Level 4 Solo creature.. which, essentially, is intended for a 4(5?) Person party to take down.

I'm sure somebody will be along with the links/rules for encounter creation that where mentioned.

 

[Rechan]

Well, if i understand correctly, five level one monsters against a five person party is supposed to be as challenging as 1 CR monster was against four 3E PCs.

Except that in 3e, Party level = CR are cakewalk encounters. The monsters were speedbumps.

I don't want the 4e level equivalent encounter to be the same as the 3e level equivalent encounter, becuase in 3e they were easy as pie.

 

[Rechan]

You assemble mobs into an encounter based on their XP levels, which should, for a balanced encounter, match the parties XP rating. Its similiar to CR, but far more streamlined.

I understand this.

What I am talking about is difficulty.

Does a level equivalent fight threaten PCs with death? Is it a Challenge to overcome? Or, is it like in 3e, that a party doesn't start sweating unless it's +2 above their level.

 

[fafhrd]

Except that in 3e, Party level = CR are cakewalk encounters. The monsters were speedbumps.

Having run one 4e game and played in another 4 minions per pc is definitely speedbump territory. Doubly so if they have a wizard. The party can definitely handle a batch of foes each being a level or two higher than the party.

 

[Rechan]

Having run one 4e game and played in another 4 minions per pc is definitely speedbump territory. Doubly so if they have a wizard. The party can definitely handle a batch of foes each being a level or two higher than the party.

To be fair, I believe minions are meant to die when you hit them the first time; the threat isn't that they're hard to kill, it's that if they surround you you're going to get ganked.

 

[fafhrd]

The ganking part doesn't really work out either though. At least from the encounters I've been involved with thus far. So long as you stick to the 4/pc, making it a 'balanced' encounter, I expect them to be ineffective. Too little damage, too much dying.

 

[frankthedm]

Except that in 3e, Party level = CR are cakewalk encounters. The monsters were speedbumps.

I don't want the 4e level equivalent encounter to be the same as the 3e level equivalent encounter, because in 3e they were easy as pie.

4E is going to be less "easy pie" and more like a whole roasted cow. The players have to work to carve off huge HP portions, but eventually, they will get through the encounter.

 

[Incenjucar]

Lucky players managed to take out a +3 Level encounter, but most got their butts handed to them, so +2 is probably sane-but-nasty and +1 is probably sane-but-a little rough