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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1095311" data-attributes="member: 3146">As a DM, I had a fighter 4/Wizard 3 (when he died) in my party. He was very weak for his level and survived as long as he did primarily due to luck. However, he was also constructed using 2e think (8 con is fine--there's no difference between 8 and 14; if I have an 18 dex, I'll never get hit) so he isn't a good example.As a player, I've got a Fighter 2/Wizard 7/Spellsword 2 kicking around. I've exploited nearly every advantage I can get from the class and he's just barely competent as a fighter. (He can dish out a lot of damage quickly if everything goes perfectly for him (given 3 rounds of prep and movement (rd 1: Haste, Imp Invis; Rd 2: Fly, Dispel Magic; Rd. 3: Glitterdust, Slow), he once managed to dish out 96 points of damage to a frost giant in one round (4 attacks (2 BAB, 1 haste, 1 expert tactician), including two crits, and a channelled magic missile)) but no more effective than an ordinary fighter/barbarian (who doesn't need prep time)--he tends to be more vulnerable than the ordinary fighter/barbarian at the beginning of a surprise conflict (because of his lower hit points) and less vulnerable if he has time to prepare (he gets quite good AC)). He's viable in 3.0; In 3.5, the only thing that will keep him viable is the Eldritch Knight class. (Since his fully prepared AC is going down by around six points and he will be unable to either use his spells as long term enhancements the way he used to or get his short term buffs in place quickly (due to the changes to durations and Haste)).I also have a Bbn 2/Ftr 2/Clr 3He's definitely a viable character. (And is MUCH more powerful than the Fighter/wizard was at his level although he's merely comparable to any of the cleric 7's I've played). I'm not sure that he is a better character than a Ftr 4/Bbn 3 though. And in 3.5, I know that the Ftr 4/Bbn 3 would be the more effective choice. (Since most of the time, the cleric levels will be dead weight without the ability to cast Bull's Strength).In 3.0, I've also seen Ftr 6/Sor 1 and similar builds. (Ftr 4/Bbn 1/Rgr 1/Rog 3/Wiz 2/Devoted Defender 1) It was quite effective due to the ability to cast Shield from a scroll or wand and increase his AC to high levels and still retain offensive effectiveness.I've also seen Bbn 1/Wiz 3. That build worked pretty well although it depended on the long duration of Bull's Strength and won't work nearly as well in 3.5Rgr 1/Monk 1/Wiz 4. This character was designed to be a survivor. Unfortunately, he wasn't designed to keep his enemies from surviving. Doubly unfortunately for him, his "survivor" status only worked when facing lots of weak foes. Toss him into a combat against a dire bear a bugbear with four levels of fighter, or a sixth level barbarian and not only did he lack the ability to hurt the them, all of his defensive "maximization" was irrelevant.The Bbn 2/Sor 4 character I've seen was one of the least effective characters I've played with. Low hit points. Low armor class (light armor + shield spell doesn't stop you from being hit). And no spellcasting power to speak of. Clearly a compensation character. The player had previously played a sorceror who died twice in one weekend. The new character took barbarian levels for hit points and uncanny dodge but didn't end up with the ability to do much that was constructive.The key difference between the effective characters and the ineffective characters here is that the effective characters take only enough levels of the secondary class to get whatever secondary ability they want and then they focus on classes that enhance their role in the party. In general, they build on their strengths and take either as few non-BAB granting levels or as few spellcasting levels as possible.My fighter/Wizard, for instance, knows that his role is melee. His feats are chosen for that (and for compatibility with his spells). His equipment is chosen for that. And his spells are chosen for that. If he decided he wanted to cast fireballs and Ice Storms, he'd go from being an example of an effective multiclass to an example of a marvellously ineffective one.</blockquote>

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