Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Are multiclass spellcasters really a non-viable choice?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Silveras" data-source="post: 1234328" data-attributes="member: 6271"><p>They considered it and rejected it as too big a change. </p><p></p><p>And, I disagree with you there. The change may be fine in your eyes, for your campaign. Looking at the big picture, it is not an answer that will work for all campaigns, and it will actually ruin some. There are balance issues when it comes to making such a subtle but profound change. With published adventures and setting materials, there are enormous shifts in power for the NPCs. </p><p></p><p>For some campaign worlds, including mine, there is a fundamental separation between Divine and Arcane spellcasting. Letting those caster levels stack, except under very specific circumstances (a PrC class ability), violates that principle by implying that "they're really the same thing". The mechanics may be similar, but that does not mean the underlying "flavor" rationale is at all related, any more than saying that because attack rolls and skill checks are handled using the same mechanic they should also "stack". </p><p></p><p>My point, at the moment, is not that the levels should not stack. My point is that making the levels stack is a bigger question than you are giving it credit, and I agree that it should *not* have been in 3.5. On that point, I think the designers tried to "do no harm", and made the right call. On the matter of Paladin's mounts, I may not agree with them, but that's another thread <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> .</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Personally, I believe that the number and effects of spells (caster level for purposes of damage dice, range, duration, etc.) <strong>should be</strong> (as it is) what suffers from multi-classing. I just don't think penetrating Spell Resistance or Saving Throw difficulties should be affected the same way. </p><p></p><p>My proposed solution, which was admittedly not the best, was along the lines of:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use Spellcraft ranks to set the save DC when casting a spell. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use Spellcraft ranks rather than Caster level for SR and dispel checks.</li> </ul><p></p><p>The value is that characters can spend their skill points to keep their spells at "top form". Naturally, all spellcasters will want to max out Spellcraft, and that was criticized on the Wizards boards. I do not think it is such a bad thing, though, if a spellcaster has to decide between increasing Spellcraft or Concentration.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Silveras, post: 1234328, member: 6271"] They considered it and rejected it as too big a change. And, I disagree with you there. The change may be fine in your eyes, for your campaign. Looking at the big picture, it is not an answer that will work for all campaigns, and it will actually ruin some. There are balance issues when it comes to making such a subtle but profound change. With published adventures and setting materials, there are enormous shifts in power for the NPCs. For some campaign worlds, including mine, there is a fundamental separation between Divine and Arcane spellcasting. Letting those caster levels stack, except under very specific circumstances (a PrC class ability), violates that principle by implying that "they're really the same thing". The mechanics may be similar, but that does not mean the underlying "flavor" rationale is at all related, any more than saying that because attack rolls and skill checks are handled using the same mechanic they should also "stack". My point, at the moment, is not that the levels should not stack. My point is that making the levels stack is a bigger question than you are giving it credit, and I agree that it should *not* have been in 3.5. On that point, I think the designers tried to "do no harm", and made the right call. On the matter of Paladin's mounts, I may not agree with them, but that's another thread ;) . Personally, I believe that the number and effects of spells (caster level for purposes of damage dice, range, duration, etc.) [B]should be[/B] (as it is) what suffers from multi-classing. I just don't think penetrating Spell Resistance or Saving Throw difficulties should be affected the same way. My proposed solution, which was admittedly not the best, was along the lines of: [list] [*]Use Spellcraft ranks to set the save DC when casting a spell. [*]Use Spellcraft ranks rather than Caster level for SR and dispel checks. [/list] The value is that characters can spend their skill points to keep their spells at "top form". Naturally, all spellcasters will want to max out Spellcraft, and that was criticized on the Wizards boards. I do not think it is such a bad thing, though, if a spellcaster has to decide between increasing Spellcraft or Concentration. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Are multiclass spellcasters really a non-viable choice?
Top