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<blockquote data-quote="JiffyPopTart" data-source="post: 8517507" data-attributes="member: 4881">I think one of the fundamental miscommunications happening here is how different posters are understanding &quot;using the same rules as PCs&quot;.In your 20HD death knight fireball example the rules are telling the GM that the fireball spell being cast follows rules as if it were cast by a 20th level caster.&nbsp; This is an argument that the death knight follows the rules of the PCs.But the death knight description of saying it operates as a wizard20 does not mean that the death knight gets all the abilities of a 20th level wizard on top of all the other abilities listed in the monster entry.And this is where there is a failure to communicate.&nbsp; There isnt a fundamental stent in the OP what they mean by &quot;using PC rules&quot;.My personal feeling is that I don't want my NPCs (which I define as any character not played a player) to have to follow PC creation rules&nbsp; because I only need them as filled out and started as necessary to fulfill their function.&nbsp; I don't need to design a 17th level merchant (ala 3e just to assign them a persuasion bonus number.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JiffyPopTart, post: 8517507, member: 4881"] I think one of the fundamental miscommunications happening here is how different posters are understanding "using the same rules as PCs". In your 20HD death knight fireball example the rules are telling the GM that the fireball spell being cast follows rules as if it were cast by a 20th level caster. This is an argument that the death knight follows the rules of the PCs. But the death knight description of saying it operates as a wizard20 does not mean that the death knight gets all the abilities of a 20th level wizard on top of all the other abilities listed in the monster entry. And this is where there is a failure to communicate. There isnt a fundamental stent in the OP what they mean by "using PC rules". My personal feeling is that I don't want my NPCs (which I define as any character not played a player) to have to follow PC creation rules because I only need them as filled out and started as necessary to fulfill their function. I don't need to design a 17th level merchant (ala 3e just to assign them a persuasion bonus number. [/QUOTE]

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