Pathfinder 1E Are occult classes equivalent to psionics?

[Ezequielramone]

Hi, first, thanks for your time.
Here is the thing. I'm about to pick up occult adventures and I'm wondering, since I run eberron and forgotten realms games, are occult classes equivalent to psionics?.

I like to play by the book, only doing minor changes. For example: in forgotten realms sorcerers get their powers from dragon blodlines but in pf you have plenty of bloodlines. I don't see a problem in that. But I have very few knowledge on psionics and nothing on occult classes. What I want to know is if I can replace X psionic class with Y occult class. Do they have the same flavor? Or can I flavor them the same without making mechanics unbelievable? I was using dreamscarred press' psionics but only two times my players have used them.
My last objective is to determine if I can replace psionics with occult in settings like eberron without changing a lot, or I can allow both classes or o have to keep only psionics in settings that originally use them and use occult in golarion and homebrew settings.

 

[Celebrim]

You mean fundamentally? Yes.

Also occult classes are equivalent to magic. And psionics are equivalent to magic.

It's all magic. It's just different flavors of it.

Psions = pyschics = wizards. It's all the same stuff that is ultimately when it casts around for specific flavor (which admittedly and probably for the best, it rarely does) is rooted in the same real world traditions. In fact, it's pretty much all going to be the same cake, with different colored frosting on it. Ultimately, even the flavor is just going to be how closely you adhere the class to a particular real world Magick tradition and what century you take as definitive. It's all Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn stuff, and the flavor is 16th century if you are doing wizard, 19th century if you are doing occultist, and mid-20th century if you have a psion.* But they all are going to have their crystal [balls] to use as mystical focuses, and all have basically the same theories that D&D will ignore to a greater or lesser degree usually in preference for having an abstract magic that just is - don't ask questions about it. And that is not a bad thing.

Obviously, there will probably be some unique mechanical differences between the three and the psions or occultists in particular are going to feel like wizards or sorcerers with a more narrowly defined flavor. Most of that turns on bookkeeping. But in the broad sense of what they can actually do - read a person's mind or move something without touching it, for example - all three are going to broadly overlap. And this is particular true because each will need to conform to D&D's gamist expectations about what a spellcaster needs to be able to contribute to the game.

 

[was]

They try to make the occult classes similar to classic psionics, but I don't think that they really have the same feel or flavor. It's more like standard magic with mental & emotional components instead of verbal & somatic ones. Each class has some sort of pool based on an associated stat. to modify their spells but none really reflect the old psionics. Even the kineticist, which I actually like, IMO reflects more of the 3.5 warlock in design than true psionics.

 

[Ezequielramone]

They try to make the occult classes similar to classic psionics, but I don't think that they really have the same feel or flavor. It's more like standard magic with mental & emotional components instead of verbal & somatic ones. Each class has some sort of pool based on an associated stat. to modify their spells but none really reflect the old psionics. Even the kineticist, which I actually like, IMO reflects more of the 3.5 warlock in design than true psionics.

So, would you recommend to keep psionics in settings that have "true" psionics?
I remember psionics been optional in the realms of eberron. Maybe the occult classes can replace them without modifying a lot the settings. What do you think?
Thanks for your response.

 

[Voadam]

No.

Occult is supposed to be its own thing, spooky and occult spiritualism.

Psionics is distinct in flavor and mechanics.

For a high quality translation of 3.5 psionics into pathfinder I highly recommend Dreamscarred Press' psionics unleashed which translates all of the OGL psionics from the XPH to pathfinder and is $10 for the pdf or check out their mechanics for free on d20pfsrd. If you like 3.5's psionics and want more but in pathfinder then I strongly suggest you get Ultimate Psionics by DSP which is psionics unleashed plus two other sourcebooks vastly expanding the psionics in pathfinder format.

For Sarlona in Eberron definitely go with psionics over occult.

 

[Ezequielramone]

Thanks I got DSP pdf but I didn't go into them because I lack time. I wanted to be sure that I am able or not to replace them. I believe I'll use psionics in FR and Eberron and occult in other things

 

[was]

So, would you recommend to keep psionics in settings that have "true" psionics?
I remember psionics been optional in the realms of eberron. Maybe the occult classes can replace them without modifying a lot the settings. What do you think?
Thanks for your response.

I'd keep them both extremely rare, bringing them in when players choose to run those types of pc's or when you occasionally want to shake things up with something unusual.

 

[Kinak]

So, would you recommend to keep psionics in settings that have "true" psionics?

I'd be tempted to use Dreamscarred's psionics rules for Dark Sun because there's not really an equivalent to a wild talent in the Occult stuff.

Psionics and occult stuff carry a slightly different tone. I'd probably use occult stuff in Eberron and Forgotten Realms, but psionics in Dark Sun and Spelljammer.

I remember psionics been optional in the realms of eberron. Maybe the occult classes can replace them without modifying a lot the settings. What do you think?

I'd use the occult classes. They fit better with the film noir tone of someplace like Sharn and the Indiana Jones nods of adventure locations like Xen'drik.

The only place that might get weird is Sarlona. There's a lot of giant crystals, which are strongly associated with psionics. Mostly, it'd probably make crystals feel like the Inspired's "thing" rather than an effect of them being psionic, which is probably fine.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Dog Moon]

I would say that if you like to stick to Paizo only, this is the closest book you're going to get to Psionics. It's Paizo's version of Psionics, but has a VERY different feel for most of the classes. However, there are pieces of the book that are similar to Psionics, like the Mindblade Magus Archetype that seems to be their version of the Soulknife? and they have a section in the optional rules for like mental battles or something like that.

However, Paizo seems to be staying away from having a true Psionics book, just like they are staying away from having a true Epic Level Handbook. I would say Occult Adventures is to Psionics that Mythic is to Epic. It's their way of taking an idea and spinning it on its head, taking pieces from the previous idea and mixing it into a new idea.

I think the problem is that by doing a Psionics book, some people are going to avoid the book just by being Psionics. However, if they add a touch of Psionics to another idea, such as dealing with aspects of the Occult, they allow the book to reach a greater audience. Same thing with Epic. Some people are going to stay away from Epic because Epic is just ridiculous, but those same people might by a book that adds neat aspects to your character even as early as level.

So to summarize, do I think Occult = Psionics, no, but it is an interesting alternative way to do it and it's the closest you're going to get through Paizo.

 

[Desh-Rae-Halra]

I think they are very different. Even Paizo made a comparison
Occult = Penny Dreadful
Psionics = X-Men

I want to ask right off the bat, if you already have Ultimate Psionics and dont have the time to read how they work, how are you planning on starting from scratch with Occult?

I have been a fan of Psionics since 1E. Dreamscarred Press got it right with Ultimate Psionics. In Ultimate Psionics you get a bunch of different races AND classes.
Occult you just get classes

Ultimate Psionics allows Psions to augment their powers and uses a power point system
Occults Kineticist is much more like the 3.5 Warlock than a Psion

Incidentally, Dreamscarred Press just released Seventh Path, which deal with Spirits/Ghosts/Undead for the Psionics system.

Overall, why not just allow both?