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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 9368253" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>I began playing D&D in '88 as a young kid, with a group using a mix of mostly AD&D 1st edition classes/races along with BD&D stuff for cleaned up rules – at least that's what I vaguely recall. And then the following year in 1989 2nd edition came out, and then my family moved and I started GMing when I was about 10 years old, using a hodgepodge of whatever materials I had – BD&D, 1e, 2e, and one or two supplements that were probably from other systems entirely.</p><p></p><p>Nothing about my experience was purist, so while I have nostalgia, I am happy playing pretty much any edition – feel like I have a solid grasp of their merits and flaws.</p><p></p><p>Play style, however, I definitely prefer a game leaning heavier on old school vibes in the sense of "players look to their creativity first, and their sheets second, to solve challenges", but still with a touch of new school in the sense of "there's a coherent narrative, pacing, and PC-driven story beats that still allow for emergent play."</p><p></p><p>What's really fascinating to me are the <strong>bleed zones </strong>towards the end of one edition's lifecycle and the start of a new edition (i.e. the half-step editions).</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">1e had many modular distinct eccentric sub-systems, the initial hints of subclasses (i.e. ranger) and prestige classes (i.e. bard), and no universal skills. Towards end of 1e's printing, skills were coming in from Oriental Adventures and many of Gygax's musings (though not all) were incorporated by David "Zeb" Cook.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2e enshrined skills in non-weapon proficiencies. However, 2e inherited the organizational mess of 1e and then the proliferation of supplements magnified that problem, and then towards the end of 2e's printing, with Skills & Powers option it was becoming more about character customization.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">When WotC released 3e it removed most of the sub-systems for streamlined rules, and went all in on the character creation mini-game – they learned from MtG that was were the money was. The skill system here was universal but also carried on with specific modifiers like from 1e/2e. When the proliferation of prestige classes, feats, and such interacting in unanticipated ways with the d20 rules become untenable, they tried to clean it up with 3.5e and that led to the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">That bridged to 4e, where the goal was even more universal design at the opposite end of the spectrum from 1e's eccentric subsystems, which pushed the boundaries of what many gamers perceived as being D&D. Skills were further streamlined, losing even the modifier tables from 3e's skills. When Mike Mearls developed the 4e Essentials line that was an attempt to recapture the tone of "classical D&D" eschewing the universal At-will/Encounter/Daily power system.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5e doubled down on subclasses as the main mechanism of character customization, and attempted to address flaws of earlier editions. To avoid the distaste for "non-D&D" 4e, they mechanically differentiated classes & incorporated ideas from that edition with a few rail guards (e.g. Hit Dice became healing surges then suddenly everyone was OK with the idea, and save ends effects became de rigueur for monsters that paralyzed/poisoned/stunned). To avoid an excess of conflicting rules with unexpected interactions like in 3e they consolidated feats and greatly limited player-facing content so they could vet it better. They mostly carried over the refined skill system of 4e – with all of its merits & flaws. Subsystems were extremely limited compared to 1e, so there was the downtime subsystem which you could use or ignore, yet it didn't involve suddenly switching to % die rolls but instead integrated with the skill system.</li> </ul><p>I hope I have done those transitions justice. This is all based on my (faulty) memory.</p><p></p><p>There's sort of a moving pendulum where there are swings back and forth between "old school creative make-it-up D&D" and "new school character building mini-game codified D&D", but the big picture of those fluctuations is a move towards increasing codification and selling options to players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 9368253, member: 20323"] I began playing D&D in '88 as a young kid, with a group using a mix of mostly AD&D 1st edition classes/races along with BD&D stuff for cleaned up rules – at least that's what I vaguely recall. And then the following year in 1989 2nd edition came out, and then my family moved and I started GMing when I was about 10 years old, using a hodgepodge of whatever materials I had – BD&D, 1e, 2e, and one or two supplements that were probably from other systems entirely. Nothing about my experience was purist, so while I have nostalgia, I am happy playing pretty much any edition – feel like I have a solid grasp of their merits and flaws. Play style, however, I definitely prefer a game leaning heavier on old school vibes in the sense of "players look to their creativity first, and their sheets second, to solve challenges", but still with a touch of new school in the sense of "there's a coherent narrative, pacing, and PC-driven story beats that still allow for emergent play." What's really fascinating to me are the [B]bleed zones [/B]towards the end of one edition's lifecycle and the start of a new edition (i.e. the half-step editions). [LIST] [*]1e had many modular distinct eccentric sub-systems, the initial hints of subclasses (i.e. ranger) and prestige classes (i.e. bard), and no universal skills. Towards end of 1e's printing, skills were coming in from Oriental Adventures and many of Gygax's musings (though not all) were incorporated by David "Zeb" Cook. [*]2e enshrined skills in non-weapon proficiencies. However, 2e inherited the organizational mess of 1e and then the proliferation of supplements magnified that problem, and then towards the end of 2e's printing, with Skills & Powers option it was becoming more about character customization. [*]When WotC released 3e it removed most of the sub-systems for streamlined rules, and went all in on the character creation mini-game – they learned from MtG that was were the money was. The skill system here was universal but also carried on with specific modifiers like from 1e/2e. When the proliferation of prestige classes, feats, and such interacting in unanticipated ways with the d20 rules become untenable, they tried to clean it up with 3.5e and that led to the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. [*]That bridged to 4e, where the goal was even more universal design at the opposite end of the spectrum from 1e's eccentric subsystems, which pushed the boundaries of what many gamers perceived as being D&D. Skills were further streamlined, losing even the modifier tables from 3e's skills. When Mike Mearls developed the 4e Essentials line that was an attempt to recapture the tone of "classical D&D" eschewing the universal At-will/Encounter/Daily power system. [*]5e doubled down on subclasses as the main mechanism of character customization, and attempted to address flaws of earlier editions. To avoid the distaste for "non-D&D" 4e, they mechanically differentiated classes & incorporated ideas from that edition with a few rail guards (e.g. Hit Dice became healing surges then suddenly everyone was OK with the idea, and save ends effects became de rigueur for monsters that paralyzed/poisoned/stunned). To avoid an excess of conflicting rules with unexpected interactions like in 3e they consolidated feats and greatly limited player-facing content so they could vet it better. They mostly carried over the refined skill system of 4e – with all of its merits & flaws. Subsystems were extremely limited compared to 1e, so there was the downtime subsystem which you could use or ignore, yet it didn't involve suddenly switching to % die rolls but instead integrated with the skill system. [/LIST] I hope I have done those transitions justice. This is all based on my (faulty) memory. There's sort of a moving pendulum where there are swings back and forth between "old school creative make-it-up D&D" and "new school character building mini-game codified D&D", but the big picture of those fluctuations is a move towards increasing codification and selling options to players. [/QUOTE]
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