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Are players always entitled to see their own rolls?
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<blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6727727" data-attributes="member: 1210"><p>Usually in a case like this, the DM rolls.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time taking this seriously. Are you suggesting that there is nothing that makes a rogue a valuable contributor to the party if he doesn't roll a natural 20 while searching for traps? Because I can think of tons of other functions for the rogue. Scouting ahead, sneaking away, trailing a mark, opening locks, skills in general (thanks to Expertise!), etc. In combat, you've got sneak attack.</p><p></p><p>Seriously, I have rogues in my campaign who have never checked for a trap, yet they seem quite functional and useful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Improved immersion. However good your pcs are at playing down what they know vs. what their characters know, it <em>does</em> make a difference, at least for every group I have ever been in. For example, if I play through a module that I've read, even if I consciously avoid acting on that knowledge, then I simply know too much about what is going to happen to enjoy that module as fully as if there were surprises in it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's kind of out of line. The idea is not that the DM wants to "play a dirty move on the players even though they rolled high", it's that the players should not know how successful they were. Look at searching for a secret door- "I search for secret doors. Oh, I rolled a 7. I'll try again.".... vs.... "I search for secret doors." "You don't find any." It's not some big mean DM conspiracy to take advantage of anyone. It's improving immersion.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, again, I think you're reading in here. I haven't read every post in the thread, but I think the general attitude of DMs who don't let the pcs know what they roll every time is more "You don't know the result" than "Yay, I can cheat!!"</p><p></p><p>Which brings us to...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely not- if you're the DM. Fudging is a time-honored tradition. Not every DM does it, but almost every DM does it once in a while. And in my experience, it's almost always in a way that favors the pcs. Personally, I really avoid it; I don't think I have fudged since around last Christmas (and this is averaging 2 to 3 sessions per week since 5e launched), and I almost always roll in the open. Nonetheless, I roll things where the pcs shouldn't know the dice result out of sight, including many Perception and Insight checks and some other things. </p><p></p><p>If a player 'fudges', on the other hand, it's straight up cheating. There's a different standard because they are in a different role.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="the Jester, post: 6727727, member: 1210"] Usually in a case like this, the DM rolls. I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time taking this seriously. Are you suggesting that there is nothing that makes a rogue a valuable contributor to the party if he doesn't roll a natural 20 while searching for traps? Because I can think of tons of other functions for the rogue. Scouting ahead, sneaking away, trailing a mark, opening locks, skills in general (thanks to Expertise!), etc. In combat, you've got sneak attack. Seriously, I have rogues in my campaign who have never checked for a trap, yet they seem quite functional and useful. Improved immersion. However good your pcs are at playing down what they know vs. what their characters know, it [i]does[/i] make a difference, at least for every group I have ever been in. For example, if I play through a module that I've read, even if I consciously avoid acting on that knowledge, then I simply know too much about what is going to happen to enjoy that module as fully as if there were surprises in it. That's kind of out of line. The idea is not that the DM wants to "play a dirty move on the players even though they rolled high", it's that the players should not know how successful they were. Look at searching for a secret door- "I search for secret doors. Oh, I rolled a 7. I'll try again.".... vs.... "I search for secret doors." "You don't find any." It's not some big mean DM conspiracy to take advantage of anyone. It's improving immersion. Yeah, again, I think you're reading in here. I haven't read every post in the thread, but I think the general attitude of DMs who don't let the pcs know what they roll every time is more "You don't know the result" than "Yay, I can cheat!!" Which brings us to... Absolutely not- if you're the DM. Fudging is a time-honored tradition. Not every DM does it, but almost every DM does it once in a while. And in my experience, it's almost always in a way that favors the pcs. Personally, I really avoid it; I don't think I have fudged since around last Christmas (and this is averaging 2 to 3 sessions per week since 5e launched), and I almost always roll in the open. Nonetheless, I roll things where the pcs shouldn't know the dice result out of sight, including many Perception and Insight checks and some other things. If a player 'fudges', on the other hand, it's straight up cheating. There's a different standard because they are in a different role. [/QUOTE]
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