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General Tabletop Discussion
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Are players always entitled to see their own rolls?
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<blockquote data-quote="Psikerlord#" data-source="post: 6728214" data-attributes="member: 93321"><p>I think the best way to handle insight, as some others have suggested, is to:</p><p></p><p>... If success - tell the player they are confident the NPC is telling the truth/lie</p><p>... If fail - tell the player they cant work it out/get no clues/not sure. DONT tell them the opposite of what is actually true. </p><p></p><p>So the insight skill has no real downside. You will either get useful info or no info. You don't get misleading info. Exception: a natural 1 = tell them the opposite of what is true. Since this is so rare, it doesn't make the skills useless, it keeps them mostly reliable and worth investing in. But it also retains a small possible downside element. </p><p></p><p>I do get the player to roll the check <em>secretly </em>via FG and the dice tower (anything rolled in the dice tower only the DM sees the result). Or in person I'll roll it for them. I do this because otherwise just the result of the roll itself can tip off the player to something odd (eg player rolls 18, NPC rolls 19, both highly skilled - if player had seen the roll and got a "not sure" result with an 18, they would be <em>very </em>suspicious. But because it's behind the screen, they just get the "not sure" result and no inadvertent tip off). </p><p></p><p>I find this also works well for perception checks and looking for traps, secret doors, hidden loot and so on. Success = find it/confident there is nothing to find. Failure = not sure/cant tell. These checks are made in secret, again because otherwise a 19+3 (22) result vs a DC 24 trap might tip off there is something odd/raise suspicion, but without seeing the dice roll there is no "out of game/metagame" tip off. Again on a natural 1 you get the opposite of what is true (you're confident there is no trap here... boom! argh! surprise!). So the skills are mostly useful, and mostly reliable, but from time to time, you might get an unwanted surprise. </p><p></p><p>Note in our game you cannot retry the same check most of the time. There needs to be a change of circumstances before you can try again.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Psikerlord#, post: 6728214, member: 93321"] I think the best way to handle insight, as some others have suggested, is to: ... If success - tell the player they are confident the NPC is telling the truth/lie ... If fail - tell the player they cant work it out/get no clues/not sure. DONT tell them the opposite of what is actually true. So the insight skill has no real downside. You will either get useful info or no info. You don't get misleading info. Exception: a natural 1 = tell them the opposite of what is true. Since this is so rare, it doesn't make the skills useless, it keeps them mostly reliable and worth investing in. But it also retains a small possible downside element. I do get the player to roll the check [I]secretly [/I]via FG and the dice tower (anything rolled in the dice tower only the DM sees the result). Or in person I'll roll it for them. I do this because otherwise just the result of the roll itself can tip off the player to something odd (eg player rolls 18, NPC rolls 19, both highly skilled - if player had seen the roll and got a "not sure" result with an 18, they would be [I]very [/I]suspicious. But because it's behind the screen, they just get the "not sure" result and no inadvertent tip off). I find this also works well for perception checks and looking for traps, secret doors, hidden loot and so on. Success = find it/confident there is nothing to find. Failure = not sure/cant tell. These checks are made in secret, again because otherwise a 19+3 (22) result vs a DC 24 trap might tip off there is something odd/raise suspicion, but without seeing the dice roll there is no "out of game/metagame" tip off. Again on a natural 1 you get the opposite of what is true (you're confident there is no trap here... boom! argh! surprise!). So the skills are mostly useful, and mostly reliable, but from time to time, you might get an unwanted surprise. Note in our game you cannot retry the same check most of the time. There needs to be a change of circumstances before you can try again. [/QUOTE]
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