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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Are players who are tactically effective difficult to run?
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<blockquote data-quote="Guilt Puppy" data-source="post: 545832" data-attributes="member: 6521"><p>A slaughter is alright every once in a while... You do need moments of comparison where the PCs can realize how much they've improved (like slaying a horde of some creature, where months ago one of them had nearly handed you a TPK.) But the majority of the game needs to be a challenge.</p><p></p><p>I give the PCs chances to use their abilities as much as I find ways to thwart them... Monsters with natural attacks don't break the DR, a Clr4/Ftr12 might have some trouble with SR 12... And they'll still be challenges.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What's the point of being high level and wasting your time with the stuff that isn't?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There's "eliminating all chances for it to work," and "eliminating some chances for it to work." Why in Vecna's name would any high-level NPC <em>not</em> put a dimensional anchor (even one that makes exceptions for them!) on their Fortress of Evil... It's not like they don't know the spell is out there. Of course, if you're having a out in the open, or on any neutral turf, the ability would work for sure... As bought and paid for.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed on setting up a perfect fight -- if I can't picture my NPCs anticipating the kind of attack the players set up, then they won't. If it's "why didn't I think of that?" then the NPCs usually did: If it's "I'd never have thought of that!" then the NPCs usually didn't.</p><p></p><p>However, I feel quite the opposite way about the cakewalk fight... I agree that encounters shouldn't remain at the same difficulty throughout (balancing player abilities with monster abilities) -- but I feel they should get <em>harder</em>, because now the stakes are higher. It's generally less satisfying if recovering the powerful artifact from the dark priestess' tower at 18th level is easier than fighting the gnoll was at level one.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope, I'd never say "at no cost" -- no monetary cost, sure, but there aren't gargantuan scorpions running everywhere. If you've got some good Wilderness Lore I'd let you find one, but it would still take time -- and if there's something happening in the world, that time may or may not be worthwhile to you.</p><p></p><p>And I'd be terse describing about obtaining the poison (if it was really no problem to obtain) -- I don't find it interesting from a story or character perspective. If you were low-level enough that the fight with the giant scorpion might have some level of danger to it -- well, that's interesting, and suddenly you've travelled far and braved perils to obtain this powerful toxin. That's fun. When it's guaranteed, it's just paperwork -- no point drawing it out.</p><p></p><p>In short, the way I like to play and the way I like to DM, winning takes more than just a good character sheet. Sometimes that means building encounters to work around certain glaring strengths, and sometimes it means changing encounters that the players are winning more easily than I feel like they should. I've never looked back at an encounter and said "gee, that would have been more fun if I hadn't decided to give those guardians True Seeing at the last minute, and let the PCs just waltz right in and take the important artifact." I do make sure that the players get to use their abilities, but I also make sure they get to use more than that.</p><p></p><p>Back to the subject: If I wasn't clear on it originally, I do believe in rewarding <em>good</em> tactics (by at least letting them work), and letting them run their course. It's only the uncreative stuff that the enemies are prepared for by default, and even then that doesn't mean it won't <em>work</em>, it just means it's not as effective.</p><p></p><p>(I'm also talking about major plot events here, not just minor encounters... For those, I play them out as statted, regardless of how easy they end up being. But I want to avoid letting the major battles become anti-climactic -- again, it's about keeping the game fun.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guilt Puppy, post: 545832, member: 6521"] A slaughter is alright every once in a while... You do need moments of comparison where the PCs can realize how much they've improved (like slaying a horde of some creature, where months ago one of them had nearly handed you a TPK.) But the majority of the game needs to be a challenge. I give the PCs chances to use their abilities as much as I find ways to thwart them... Monsters with natural attacks don't break the DR, a Clr4/Ftr12 might have some trouble with SR 12... And they'll still be challenges. What's the point of being high level and wasting your time with the stuff that isn't? There's "eliminating all chances for it to work," and "eliminating some chances for it to work." Why in Vecna's name would any high-level NPC [i]not[/i] put a dimensional anchor (even one that makes exceptions for them!) on their Fortress of Evil... It's not like they don't know the spell is out there. Of course, if you're having a out in the open, or on any neutral turf, the ability would work for sure... As bought and paid for. Agreed on setting up a perfect fight -- if I can't picture my NPCs anticipating the kind of attack the players set up, then they won't. If it's "why didn't I think of that?" then the NPCs usually did: If it's "I'd never have thought of that!" then the NPCs usually didn't. However, I feel quite the opposite way about the cakewalk fight... I agree that encounters shouldn't remain at the same difficulty throughout (balancing player abilities with monster abilities) -- but I feel they should get [i]harder[/i], because now the stakes are higher. It's generally less satisfying if recovering the powerful artifact from the dark priestess' tower at 18th level is easier than fighting the gnoll was at level one. Nope, I'd never say "at no cost" -- no monetary cost, sure, but there aren't gargantuan scorpions running everywhere. If you've got some good Wilderness Lore I'd let you find one, but it would still take time -- and if there's something happening in the world, that time may or may not be worthwhile to you. And I'd be terse describing about obtaining the poison (if it was really no problem to obtain) -- I don't find it interesting from a story or character perspective. If you were low-level enough that the fight with the giant scorpion might have some level of danger to it -- well, that's interesting, and suddenly you've travelled far and braved perils to obtain this powerful toxin. That's fun. When it's guaranteed, it's just paperwork -- no point drawing it out. In short, the way I like to play and the way I like to DM, winning takes more than just a good character sheet. Sometimes that means building encounters to work around certain glaring strengths, and sometimes it means changing encounters that the players are winning more easily than I feel like they should. I've never looked back at an encounter and said "gee, that would have been more fun if I hadn't decided to give those guardians True Seeing at the last minute, and let the PCs just waltz right in and take the important artifact." I do make sure that the players get to use their abilities, but I also make sure they get to use more than that. Back to the subject: If I wasn't clear on it originally, I do believe in rewarding [i]good[/i] tactics (by at least letting them work), and letting them run their course. It's only the uncreative stuff that the enemies are prepared for by default, and even then that doesn't mean it won't [i]work[/i], it just means it's not as effective. (I'm also talking about major plot events here, not just minor encounters... For those, I play them out as statted, regardless of how easy they end up being. But I want to avoid letting the major battles become anti-climactic -- again, it's about keeping the game fun.) [/QUOTE]
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