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<blockquote data-quote="Kraydak" data-source="post: 6135111" data-attributes="member: 12306">Worse, as noted above, the extra dice from deadly strike/cantrip outweighs the +stat that fighters get.And all of this is ignoring the fact that cantrips doing 50% of fighter damage is massively unbalanced-overpowered.Remember, you aren't doing a strict fighter vs. wizards DPR comparison.&nbsp; That'd be silly.&nbsp; No, you are doing party vs party comparisons, such as:Melee Fighter, Ranged Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue VS Melee Fighter, Cleric, Wizard X 2, Rogue comparison.Now, assume that the non-Fighters do 50% of Fighter DPR.&nbsp; Well, the 1st party does 3.5 Fighter DPR while the second only does 3 Fighter DPR.&nbsp; IE it does 1/6 more DPR at the cost of 1/3 of the spell power.&nbsp; Now, if the Wizards are doing 50% of Fighter DPR *only* when taking combat heavy spell loadouts, well, you could maybe (just maybe) make a balance case.&nbsp; In that scenario, the Wizards *aren't* providing all that much utility.&nbsp; But remember, this means that you can start to think about balance when a combat-loadout Wizards, using his non-cantrip spells, is only doing 50% of the Fighter damage.&nbsp; Cantrips at the 50% level (and right now, they are only there at VERY low level, otherwise they are much higher) is simply absurdly high.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kraydak, post: 6135111, member: 12306"] Worse, as noted above, the extra dice from deadly strike/cantrip outweighs the +stat that fighters get. And all of this is ignoring the fact that cantrips doing 50% of fighter damage is massively unbalanced-overpowered. Remember, you aren't doing a strict fighter vs. wizards DPR comparison. That'd be silly. No, you are doing party vs party comparisons, such as: Melee Fighter, Ranged Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue VS Melee Fighter, Cleric, Wizard X 2, Rogue comparison. Now, assume that the non-Fighters do 50% of Fighter DPR. Well, the 1st party does 3.5 Fighter DPR while the second only does 3 Fighter DPR. IE it does 1/6 more DPR at the cost of 1/3 of the spell power. Now, if the Wizards are doing 50% of Fighter DPR *only* when taking combat heavy spell loadouts, well, you could maybe (just maybe) make a balance case. In that scenario, the Wizards *aren't* providing all that much utility. But remember, this means that you can start to think about balance when a combat-loadout Wizards, using his non-cantrip spells, is only doing 50% of the Fighter damage. Cantrips at the 50% level (and right now, they are only there at VERY low level, otherwise they are much higher) is simply absurdly high. [/QUOTE]

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