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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8600445" data-attributes="member: 7030563">To be honest I find concentration to be overated across the board.&nbsp; On Paladins, Monks and Melee Fighters I generally start with a 12 CON. Barbarians a 14-16. Other characters it is usually 10 unless it is a subclass or race that uses CON for a save.On Rogues specifically, Inteligence, Wisdom and Charisma are all pretty important IME.&nbsp;&nbsp; Without intelligence your investigation is going to suck, without wisdom your perception is going to suck, without charisma your charisma skills are going to suck and without strength your climbing is going to suck.&nbsp; That is before you even consider subclasses.&nbsp; Arcane Trickster, Scout, Inquisitive, Mastermind and Swashbuckler all make extensive use of Wisdom, Charisma or Intelligence (or several of them) in their subclass features.&nbsp; These are the core things that define your build.You realize how bad this is when you get reliable talent and you still fail over half the &quot;medium difficulty&quot; checks you make with proficiency&nbsp; while the guy who took a +1 instead automatically makes all of them.Expertise lets you cover this a bit, although you are not really expert-level when playing an 8 and you don't have enough to cover all your skills.&nbsp; Generally when I play a Rogue I dump strength to 8 and take expertise in athletics to counter the low strength.&nbsp; Since athletics it is the only strength-based skill this is the easiest one to dump.Cosntitution is usually next at a 10. Then depending on subclass and build my other abilities get the rest of the points with all of them all generally being at least +1 at start.&nbsp; If I am an AT I am probably going 16 intelligence or 15 intelligence and 14 Charisma.&nbsp; Scout 14 Wisdom, Swashbuckler 14 Charisma.&nbsp;&nbsp; That means I am good at the skills I am proficient in, really great at the skills I have expertise in (except Strength) and not terrible at the other skills while having abilities to play into my subclass.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8600445, member: 7030563"] To be honest I find concentration to be overated across the board. On Paladins, Monks and Melee Fighters I generally start with a 12 CON. Barbarians a 14-16. Other characters it is usually 10 unless it is a subclass or race that uses CON for a save. On Rogues specifically, Inteligence, Wisdom and Charisma are all pretty important IME. Without intelligence your investigation is going to suck, without wisdom your perception is going to suck, without charisma your charisma skills are going to suck and without strength your climbing is going to suck. That is before you even consider subclasses. Arcane Trickster, Scout, Inquisitive, Mastermind and Swashbuckler all make extensive use of Wisdom, Charisma or Intelligence (or several of them) in their subclass features. These are the core things that define your build. You realize how bad this is when you get reliable talent and you still fail over half the "medium difficulty" checks you make with proficiency while the guy who took a +1 instead automatically makes all of them. Expertise lets you cover this a bit, although you are not really expert-level when playing an 8 and you don't have enough to cover all your skills. Generally when I play a Rogue I dump strength to 8 and take expertise in athletics to counter the low strength. Since athletics it is the only strength-based skill this is the easiest one to dump. Cosntitution is usually next at a 10. Then depending on subclass and build my other abilities get the rest of the points with all of them all generally being at least +1 at start. If I am an AT I am probably going 16 intelligence or 15 intelligence and 14 Charisma. Scout 14 Wisdom, Swashbuckler 14 Charisma. That means I am good at the skills I am proficient in, really great at the skills I have expertise in (except Strength) and not terrible at the other skills while having abilities to play into my subclass. [/QUOTE]

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