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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8711324" data-attributes="member: 18">I'm not really seeing it and it's all conjecture with no math and no strong arguments.You're doing less damage, you have a worse AC than someone doing the same damage as you would have, you're dealing with more penalties (cover, range, DMs being twerps as per your example etc.), you have to blow your fighting style just to try and deal with that fact rather than to give you a real advantage. They also can't act as a tank, can't perform Attacks of Opportunity (unless I guess you swing at them unarmed or something). It's not as far behind melee as it could be, but from what you're presenting, the idea that it's &quot;too strong&quot; seems laughable, unless you think ranged should be miles behind melee, which I sure do not.Ranged Rogues have to stay within 30ft, which negates a lot of the advantages of being ranged in the first place, and to reliably get SA they have to use Steady Aim, which means no moving before or after the attack, and again, that negates a lot of the advantages of being ranged. Someone like a dual-wielding Swashbuckler Rogue is going to get SA more reliably, for sure, and may well be just straight-up more dangerous, and not that dramatically more risky given you're rooted to the spot due to Steady Aim.Also your example is basically &quot;I had a lucky streak&quot;, and is totally meaningless, not even anecdotally interesting, without numbers to give it context.And people involving Feats are generally fantasists (at least until a Feat at L1 and L4 becomes the rules), because they're usually talking about a character who &quot;comes online&quot; at level 8 or 12, outside corner cases caused by DM decisions like rolled stats + free Feats.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8711324, member: 18"] I'm not really seeing it and it's all conjecture with no math and no strong arguments. You're doing less damage, you have a worse AC than someone doing the same damage as you would have, you're dealing with more penalties (cover, range, DMs being twerps as per your example etc.), you have to blow your fighting style just to try and deal with that fact rather than to give you a real advantage. They also can't act as a tank, can't perform Attacks of Opportunity (unless I guess you swing at them unarmed or something). It's not as far behind melee as it could be, but from what you're presenting, the idea that it's "too strong" seems laughable, unless you think ranged should be miles behind melee, which I sure do not. Ranged Rogues have to stay within 30ft, which negates a lot of the advantages of being ranged in the first place, and to reliably get SA they have to use Steady Aim, which means no moving before or after the attack, and again, that negates a lot of the advantages of being ranged. Someone like a dual-wielding Swashbuckler Rogue is going to get SA more reliably, for sure, and may well be just straight-up more dangerous, and not that dramatically more risky given you're rooted to the spot due to Steady Aim. Also your example is basically "I had a lucky streak", and is totally meaningless, not even anecdotally interesting, without numbers to give it context. And people involving Feats are generally fantasists (at least until a Feat at L1 and L4 becomes the rules), because they're usually talking about a character who "comes online" at level 8 or 12, outside corner cases caused by DM decisions like rolled stats + free Feats. [/QUOTE]

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