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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4441547" data-attributes="member: 7635">Fuzzy nostalgia there. While spells slot were more limited, spell effects were far more potent. Some stuff from the 2nd edition books...* Spider Climb was first level. * Invisibility had a duration of 24 hours or until you attacked, whichever came first. That's a lot of scouting if you never attack!* Knock was just as potent, and was the only way to disarm magical doors (wizard lock)* Fly had a duration measured in turns (10 min per turn) at a movement of 18 (3x walking) and maneuverability class B.* A Cloak of elvenkind typically granted an hide-in-shadows effect equal to 50% (unfavorable conditions like sunlight) to 95% (favorable, like night) effectiveness.* Ditto with boots of elf-kind (95%-100% chance of success at move silently!)* Clerics got in on the act too: silence 15' radius was fool proof soundless scouting for an entire squadron. Its durations 2 rds/level was no slouch at higher levels. (remember 1 rd = 1 minute)* Worse still: Find Traps. For the cost of 1 2nd level spell slot, you got 30 minutes of "find every trap in sight, no chance of failure". Eat that rogue.* Oh, and comprehend languages never failed to read a language. Unless you were pressed for time...Remember, these were the days thieves were defined by 8 categories: pick pockets, find/remove traps, open locks, hide in shadows, move silently, climb walls, hear noise, and Read Languages. Spellcasting (even low level) nullified the percentile chance (and the 5% margin of failure, not matter what your score was) of failure on six of those eight skills (open locks < knock, find trap < find traps, invisibility > hide in shadows, silence > move silently, comp lanaguages > read languages, spider climb/levitate/fly > climb walls)Well, the thief still had near noise and pick pockets. Least they had sole dominion over... whadda mean bards get those two thief skills AND can cast any wizard spell in the game? ORC SNOT!At least 3e TRIED to make amends; elven fashion grants bonuses not replacement powers, fly et all are weaker, invisibility is measure in rounds, not days, and find traps grants a small bonus to a clerics not-class skill. Closer, but still not enough.</blockquote>

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