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<blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 4442271" data-attributes="member: 158">I'm in the &quot;somewhat agree&quot; column - I've seen rogues get marginalized in all but ONE area - Stealth, and only if they max those Hide and Move silently scores with lots of feats, synergies, and magic items. I've seen a 15th level rogue with about a +40 to his stealth skills, and he'd vanish from the battlefield.But Pick lock? Let the wizard do it, he's got about a half dozen knock spells on scroll, and the fighter has an adamantine greataxe if he can't do it. Find traps? Cleric's got either a wand or scroll of that which he made, and it's still got a few dozen charges left, because what DM puts a trap every 10 feet of corridor any more? Climb? Rogue's got his own fly potions, or slippers of spider climbing, for that. In fact, thanks to superior invisibility, the rogue wouldn't normally bother with hide and move silent, except that they defeat magical means of detection (see invisibility and true seeing). Only thing that can defeat a good hide score -- is another rogue with a maxxed out spot score. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />In my opinion, the biggest problem with anti-magic is that if over-used, it ticks off EVERYONE, not just the wizards and clerics. Even the Rogue is upset because he's losing a lot of his bonuses, too. And if used sparingly as intended, it means those skills are only useful sparingly. Honestly, even if one depends on the limited number of times per day a wizard or cleric could cast their spells, how many times per day do you need that utility? There's likely not going to be a dozen locks to pick in any given game day, or more than a half dozen traps to find, etc. If there are, we're going well outside the usual &quot;four encounters per day.&quot;I'm certainly not saying you don't see problems, but I definitely have with high level rogues (say, over 10th level).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Henry, post: 4442271, member: 158"] I'm in the "somewhat agree" column - I've seen rogues get marginalized in all but ONE area - Stealth, and only if they max those Hide and Move silently scores with lots of feats, synergies, and magic items. I've seen a 15th level rogue with about a +40 to his stealth skills, and he'd vanish from the battlefield. But Pick lock? Let the wizard do it, he's got about a half dozen knock spells on scroll, and the fighter has an adamantine greataxe if he can't do it. Find traps? Cleric's got either a wand or scroll of that which he made, and it's still got a few dozen charges left, because what DM puts a trap every 10 feet of corridor any more? Climb? Rogue's got his own fly potions, or slippers of spider climbing, for that. In fact, thanks to superior invisibility, the rogue wouldn't normally bother with hide and move silent, except that they defeat magical means of detection (see invisibility and true seeing). Only thing that can defeat a good hide score -- is another rogue with a maxxed out spot score. :) In my opinion, the biggest problem with anti-magic is that if over-used, it ticks off EVERYONE, not just the wizards and clerics. Even the Rogue is upset because he's losing a lot of his bonuses, too. And if used sparingly as intended, it means those skills are only useful sparingly. Honestly, even if one depends on the limited number of times per day a wizard or cleric could cast their spells, how many times per day do you need that utility? There's likely not going to be a dozen locks to pick in any given game day, or more than a half dozen traps to find, etc. If there are, we're going well outside the usual "four encounters per day." I'm certainly not saying you don't see problems, but I definitely have with high level rogues (say, over 10th level). [/QUOTE]

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