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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2275729" data-attributes="member: 2011">Well, I have never debated the issue previously (and was not even aware the issue existed), but if you literally read the rules, two magical effects that increase size do not stack. Sometimes, the answers to a few simple questions can make it clearer:If Wild Shape is used to change a Halfling into a Polar Bear, did the size category of the Halfing increase? Yes.Is Wild Shape a magical effect? Yes.If Animal Growth is used to increase the size a Polar Bear, did the size category of the Polar Bear increase? Yes.Is Animal Growth a magical effect? Yes.The fact that some people want Wild Shape and Polymorph Transmutations to not be considered size altering ones appears to be irrelevant to the rules themselves and a semantical game. If the game explicitly called out a "size changing" spell game mechanic (e.g. like Transmutation [Size Altering] [Type Altering]) and said "Magical Size Altering effects that increase size do not stack" and if Alter Self and Polymorph and Wild Shape did not have the [Size Altering] qualifier, then their argument would have merit.But as is, the claim is that the spells do not explicitly state that they change the size (and instead change the form which can have a different size), hence, it does not count is fairly weak in a rules forum. It's not as if the size is not changing.No. The rules are unclear on it."One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant: Sometimes, one spell can render a later spell irrelevant. Both spells are still active, but one has rendered the other useless in some fashion."This is the closest rule we have and it is unclear.However, it is a fairly illogical if having Righteous Might up by itself gives one set of abilities, then casting Enlarge Person would make those abilities worse.For example:PC Cleric: "Ha ha evil doer. I have cast Righteous Might on myself and will now crush your followers."NPC Wizard: "Not so fast holy spawn. <Enlarge Person>. Ha ha. You are now easier to hit and easier to damage with evocation spells."PC Cleric: "Darn."It makes more sense and is much much easier to adjudicate if no aspect of a transmutation will work if any portion of it is prevented from working. In other words, in order to successfuly transmute, you must fully transmute. The later spell becomes completely "irrelevant".The fact that you do not Enlarge at all implies that you do not get a -2 size penalty to Dex for enlarging (at all).</blockquote>

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