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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2276515" data-attributes="member: 2011">Type and subtype are merely game mechanic rules to allow DMs to know how to adjudicate other effects.For example, if you are Lawful Evil and Shapechange into a Titan, your alignment does not become Chaotic just because your new subtype is Chaotic. You can (and should) still act lawfully.Protection From Law and Protection From Chaos will both now be affective against you because you are still Lawful with a Chaotic subtype, but you are still you. Just a different body.Or are you claiming that Shapechange which is based on Polymorph which is based on Alter Self which states that you retain your own mind is no longer valid?It is still the same character. A character TRANSMUTED by magic and hence whose size increased by magic.If Diirk is playiing a PC and that PC is polymorphed, it does not become an NPC under the DMs control.It is the same PC and Diirk still plays him. Just a PC with different abilities.If that Transformed PC walks into an Antimagic Field, he changes back.Are you claiming that a Reincarnated PC is no longer the same PC?Are you claiming that a 20th level Monk is no longer the same PC?Except that your size changes.That's like saying that when you acquire a smaller size when polymorphed, you do not have to follow the carrying capacity rules for Small creatures because those rules are not in the Polymorph spell either.And, it is a general rule because it directly talks about magical effects outside of the spell itself that it is listed in. Unlike Haste stating that it counters Slow, or Daylight stating that it dispels or counters lower level Darkness spells, this rule does not explicity state which other spells it affects. It states which type of magical effects it affects (i.e. those "that increase size"). It is a general rule statement that applies to any spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability that increases size, not just spells that also state it.If it meant only spells (and according to you, only spells with the same sentence in them), it would have stated spells and not "magical effects".Irrelevant might be if the two magic effects did the same thing but had different names.But, the example in the PHB page 172 TOTALLY disagrees with this interpretation, hence, your interpretation of the "irrelevant" sentence is NOT the only one according to RAW."If a creature using a shapechange effect becomes petrified by a flesh to stone spell, however, it turns into a mindless, inert statue, and the shapechange effect cannot help it escape."The second transmutation here trumps the first one and the spells have totally differing effects.I do not disagree with this IF the "One Effect Makes Another Irrelevent" rule does not trump the "Different Bonus Names" rule in this case.The problem we have is that we do not know which rule trumps the other.I am not saying what the answer is for Righteous Might followed by an Enlarge Person, I'm saying that the rules are unclear on it.</blockquote>

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