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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6795240" data-attributes="member: 6778044">So, here's a rough stat comparison. I have to figure out my prior edition character stats....and it's been sooooo long!Ogre (1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th)AC: 5/5/16/23/11HP:21/21/29//59#Attacks: 1/1/1(+6)/+14/1(+6)Damage Attack: 1d10 or 1d6+6 (club)/1d10 or 1d6+6(club)/2d8+7 (club)//2d8+4 (13)(club)Armor class and to-hit is tough to compare. If you assume that AC simply ascends, then these would be the following for 1e/2eShield 11Leather 12Studded 13scale 14chain 15banded 16plate mail 17plate mail and shield 18These don't match the current definitions, though.I can't even begin to make sense of 4th edition. Which ogre? The ones that cause similar damage, are the savage causing 1d10+5, and has 111 hit points, or the one more in line damage wise with 3e/5e is the war hulk causing 2d6+8, but has an AC of 25 and 286 hp.At first level, the 1e/2e characters have a 20-25% chance of hitting the ogre with a melee or ranged attack. The fighter would cause 1d12 damage with a longsword, other characters range from 1d4 to 1d8 damage. If all the PCs hit in a round, then the ogre is done. But the ogre has 50% chance of hitting a 5 (15) AC, or chain mail in that edition. For those armored with less, it's higher. Even assuming maximum hit points at first level (which was not the rule), that's 1d4 for the wizard, 1d6 for thief (rogue), 1d8 for the cleric, and 1d10 for the fighter. I've always felt that 5e feels very similar to 1e/2e in its combat, and this shows that a straight combat between a single ogre and a party of 4 is entirely dependent on good die rolls and the ability bonuses of the party. Their best bet is to get off as many ranged attacks as possible, because a single shot with the club will, on average, kill a PC. By the numbers, 3e and 5e look very similar, and they don't look all that different from 1e/2e in terms of balance. I think the main difference is the options that they have in combat. The hit points are considerably higher in 5e, probably to help compensate.For 4th edition. Good lord. I don't even know where to start. What's a 'standard' fighter? With healing surges, all of the potential abilities and such I don't really know the system well enough to do it justice. Overall it looks like the ogre (at least one that causes the same amount of damage per attack as 5e) is much tougher. Of course, there are a number of weaker options, including a minion ogre (yes, that's an ogre that's guaranteed to die by a single hit. In 1e/2e a party would have been extremely lucky to kill it in a single round). So this is far from a scientific comparison, but right off the bat I'm wondering if people that are finding solo monsters in 5e too easy are used to 4e. From a cursory look at this, I think the 1e-2e/3e and 5e look relatively close to each other. The 3e might be the weakest of the three since with feats and new abilities the PCs had become a bit more deadly.I think that with an average of 59 hit points, it's going to be tough for a 5e party of 4 to beat the ogre outright. The biggest change here, though, is that anemic AC. The extra hit points help, but I'm not sure it offsets it altogether since all 4 PCs are more likely than not to hit each round. But in melee, the ogre would be fearsome and likely to drop just about any 1st level PC in a single hit. Putting an ogre in a subterranean lair, with narrowish windy natural passages to largely eliminate the threat of ranged weapons helps but I think the AC is just too low to make it an equal to the 1/2/3e ogre. Increasing the AC even partway to 3e levels would help make it really a deadly foe. So my initial reaction - perhaps natural armor values are too low? Time to go look at some other monsters...Ilbranteloth</blockquote>

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