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<blockquote data-quote="swrushing" data-source="post: 2656465" data-attributes="member: 14140">First, Another nod to caliban's excellent summmary. &quot;Effectiveness&quot;&nbsp; in most cases is strongly tied to campaign presumtpions and the sor-wiz balance is very much so.However, IMO and still I think agreeing with Caliban, i think if you look at these elements of campaign you will find the sor does what he does pretty consistently regardless, but the wizard's power level and effectiveness varies greatly by these campaign presumptions. The sor will do as he does but the wizard is very dependent on some rather carefully balanced campaign elements to be &quot;good&quot; and not &quot;weak&quot; or not&quot; too powerful.&quot;As for play a sor...I did.&nbsp; played an elven RAW sorcerer in a campaign and had a fun time too. No power level issues.Also ran a three year campaign where there was another RAW sor and he did fine too.We never saw a power issue so no help was asked for. About half the other PCs did ask for class tweaks for this and that, never power, almost always flavor, but my elven sor and my player's gnomish sor were just fine, a lot different, and very fun to play.One of the issues with wizard that keeps me from playin' them all that much is the paperwork. The wizard player who played alongside the gnome in my game was practically an accountant with the spreadsheets, the scroll buying and scribing time etc. Not only was this a lot of player &quot;work&quot; as far as i could tell for him to &quot;get the most out of his wizard&quot; and all that, it was also a lot of character &quot;work&quot; in game so that when push came to shove his character was &quot;huddled over his books&quot; during downtime so he can try and get that bulging spellbook.By contrast, the sorcerer i played spent most of his downtime socializing, performing in bars (perform skill) and generally making friends and contacts. paid off quite a bit (both in coin and info but also in allies to call on) and was lots more fun than &quot;i spend a day scribing&quot; to boot.Now, of course, I have seen campaigns where, de facto, &quot;downtime&quot; was only for wizards. By this i mean, when the wizard needed time it was taken and everyone else put their characters on hold, cuz most of the stuff other character would do for &quot;profit&quot; or &quot;gain&quot; wasn't something detailed out as &quot;resolve this mechanically&quot; in the book and the Gm sure didn't want to make the wizard actually &quot;miss out&quot; while the wiz was spending all that time doing his spell book stuff.All in all, IMO, the sorcerer makes a preferrable &quot;adventurer&quot; character, as he has little that gets in the way of &quot;lets go do stuff&quot; and isn't as dependent on a whole slew of campaign dials for anything close to balance.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="swrushing, post: 2656465, member: 14140"] First, Another nod to caliban's excellent summmary. "Effectiveness" in most cases is strongly tied to campaign presumtpions and the sor-wiz balance is very much so. However, IMO and still I think agreeing with Caliban, i think if you look at these elements of campaign you will find the sor does what he does pretty consistently regardless, but the wizard's power level and effectiveness varies greatly by these campaign presumptions. The sor will do as he does but the wizard is very dependent on some rather carefully balanced campaign elements to be "good" and not "weak" or not" too powerful." As for play a sor... I did. played an elven RAW sorcerer in a campaign and had a fun time too. No power level issues. Also ran a three year campaign where there was another RAW sor and he did fine too. We never saw a power issue so no help was asked for. About half the other PCs did ask for class tweaks for this and that, never power, almost always flavor, but my elven sor and my player's gnomish sor were just fine, a lot different, and very fun to play. One of the issues with wizard that keeps me from playin' them all that much is the paperwork. The wizard player who played alongside the gnome in my game was practically an accountant with the spreadsheets, the scroll buying and scribing time etc. Not only was this a lot of player "work" as far as i could tell for him to "get the most out of his wizard" and all that, it was also a lot of character "work" in game so that when push came to shove his character was "huddled over his books" during downtime so he can try and get that bulging spellbook. By contrast, the sorcerer i played spent most of his downtime socializing, performing in bars (perform skill) and generally making friends and contacts. paid off quite a bit (both in coin and info but also in allies to call on) and was lots more fun than "i spend a day scribing" to boot. Now, of course, I have seen campaigns where, de facto, "downtime" was only for wizards. By this i mean, when the wizard needed time it was taken and everyone else put their characters on hold, cuz most of the stuff other character would do for "profit" or "gain" wasn't something detailed out as "resolve this mechanically" in the book and the Gm sure didn't want to make the wizard actually "miss out" while the wiz was spending all that time doing his spell book stuff. All in all, IMO, the sorcerer makes a preferrable "adventurer" character, as he has little that gets in the way of "lets go do stuff" and isn't as dependent on a whole slew of campaign dials for anything close to balance. [/QUOTE]

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