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Message: <blockquote data-quote="swrushing" data-source="post: 2656820" data-attributes="member: 14140"></blockquote>never one to argue with an opinion but i will make a few comments about your reasons. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />having spells and having spells ready to be cast are two different things. well, both the sorcerers i mentioned above had still and silent rather early in their career and metamagic feats were their most popular choices. An extra feat every five levels for metamagic doesn't come close to offsetting the gain for spontaneous metamagic the sor has.IMX, which may vary from yours,  the wiz is better served and more often optsto go with  with the item feats for his choices and the sor heads for the metamagic.As for your example? IIRC my sorcerer did opt for gaseous form and the gnomish guy had it in a wand, so I don't see that the sor would have not opted for the gaseous form as a likely case, and gaseous form and dimension door serve very different purposes so i don't see this as a likely "either/or."but, yes, when you choose both sides spells to make one perfect for the situation and the other wrong, the example works out. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />one of the better examples of one of the things the wiz has going for him. he gets more skills. But both sides have things going for them and against them. I know in my sorcerer play i got a lot of hay out opf his good social abilities and ranks cross-class into perform helped a lot too.My experience says otherwise. here is the key... social skills are often OPPOSED ROLLS and for most people those opposition skills are not in-class,  which tends to mean a few ranks cross-class plus a high attribute is enough to let you win those checks.which is not so bad as it seems, the money thing, if while the wizard is spending money to make items your gm is allowing your character to spend his time making money using your skills or your spells. now, if, as i mentioned earlier, the Gm, restricts downtime activities to "letting the mage make items and buff his spellbook" and doesn't let the other character profit from their abilities, this can shift to heavily favor the wiz.My Gm didn't, and my guy made money and contacts and friends that helped out a lot, while the mage did his spellbooks and items. I thought it a reasonable trade, even tho the mage player had some definitely dull periods watching me roleplay while his character huddled over his books and items.and i remain amazed that after all this time the misconception still remains even tho you seem very knowledgable.sorcerer metamagic is a full round action, which means its just as "cannot sit there" risky under hardball Gms as drawing a scroll and reading it... ie in both cases thats all you do, you get a 5' move max, and it goes off right now, not like "1 round casting time spells" which cast on and dont go off until your next turn comes 'round.if thats not what you meant, and you think being limited to a 5' step only is the serious problem except for softball GMs... then i apologize for the misunderstanding.from the 3.5 srd:" If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn’t the same as a 1-round casting time.)"[/QUOTE]

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