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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 4936604" data-attributes="member: 957">ok, well again, you said:Bull rush is the maneuver and the key was choosing that maneuver at the time the orc was in front of the fire pit.  It is cool if you didn't mean that.  But it is what you said, so I hope you understand I just took you at your word.Now you seem to want to add an arbitrary game mechanic that lets the character wave a cosmic get out of jail free card and suddenly it is a gimmie that you will succeed. I like action points and sometimes use them.  But action points are pretty precious when I use them, and I frequently don't.  And even when used they only give +1d6.  But there is some common ground here at least.But some kind of more potent mechanic is just gimmicky to me, and not fun.  It is a freebie and the opposite of heroic or cool.  You may as well set aside the dice and declare the PCs "the winners".  And that I see it this way is probably part of why I use APs so infrequently and stingily. On the other hand, I still take issue with the "try again and again" thing.  If it is really that unlikely, then your gnome wizard really needs to stop trying to bullrush orcs.  And it may fail for a normal half-orc barbarian character.  There is no glory in victory without the risk of failure.  But I don't see anything in PF that makes me anticipate trying "again and again".  I think you are building an image that doesn't represent the actual circumstances.  The chance of success for a reasonable task is reasonable.I get the impression that you see failing to bullrush the orc into the firepit as a break down of the game system.  I don't see that in the least.</blockquote>

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